Community Discussion 0423 Update

This is a BIG BS. You continue on this road and we will never see any 8k this year. And i am being realistic here.
You are just waisting time @deletedpimaxrep1. We getting pissed over here @deletedpimaxrep1. You promissed us that the April will be the month, now its May. When we are in May you will say more delays and get the June and so on.

Ok thanks I think I just misunderstood. Good luck Thanks for update.

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@deletedpimaxrep1

Thanks for the update. Happy that we are getting close to finish it … I bet 2 more months !!!

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Moved the above posts as they are not questions. Did add @deletedpimaxrep1 for posts directed to her. Please keep m1 0423 update populated with questions only. Thanks can be populated with a Like pls.

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Do you not want them to do internal testing and revisions before they send the hmds to external testers?

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[quote=“allocen, post:1, topic:5856, full:true”]This is a BIG BS. You continue on this road and we will never see any 8k this year. And i am being realistic here.
You are just waisting time @xunshu. We getting pissed over here @xunshu. You promissed us that the April will be the month, now its May. When we are in May you will say more delays and get the June and so on.[/quote]
You are entitled to your own opinion, but I respectfully disagree. Pimax has made a difficult decision: to spend significant sums of money, to make the product even better.

Personally, I don’t want a VR headset which was rushed into production. I would much rather have a high quality headset with excellent optics, hopefully the best on the market, which will last me for years.

Quality takes time. I’m willing to wait a while longer, if it means the product will be noticably better.

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Pimax just need to be more realistic and advertise time frames accordingly.

It was obvious on the last update that Q2 was if absolutely everything went perfectly. Now in a situation like they’re in, there is just no way everything will go perfectly. Blind Freddy can see a thousand things that could go wrong, and wisdom teaches it’s the things you didn’t see going wrong that will really stuff you up.

I’m glad the production line is moved to one experienced in building optical products.

The only thing Pimax is really stuffing up is not being honest with themselves, and thus us, about how much can and will go wrong.

We are not at the finish line.

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True, we are not at the finish line.

I can understand how disappointed some people are. I was pretty sure Pimax could not meet what seemed like very optimistic deadlines, but I’m disappointed that the 8K is this delayed. I still think they are making the correct decision; many people have said this is Pimax’s big chance to be a major player in VR and that they better not mess this up (and I agree).

The time and expense to manufacture custom lenses is well known. Creating high-precision dies (molds) to produce lenses is not easy nor cheap. This is why the Vive Pro is still using the same lenses as the Vive, god-rays and all. The lenses are one of the most important things in a VR headset; cutting corners would just lead to blurriness, god-rays, and headaches, none of which I want in a headset.

In the official announcement thread, someone mentioned the V3 lenses, which were good, and why didn’t Pimax just use those? At the time, Pimax said those were multi-part lenses. That means that they would be difficult to assemble at the factory and likely be too expensive for mass production. It also means that the headset would be heavier and have little room for those people who need to use glasses (like me). That is because multi-part lenses are typically quite a bit thicker than an equivalent single lens solution.

In addition, I’m not sure existing GPUs will be able to drive the Pimax with high-quality settings and an acceptable framerate (even the 1080Ti). The 1180 release appears to be delayed, probably because NVidia isn’t feeling any pressure from AMD. The worst thing is we may really need an 1180Ti or better, to fully realize the potential in the 8K. To me, the video card delays make the Pimax delays a moot point. I probably won’t have the VR setup I want, until late this year, regardless of when Pimax ships my headset.

Also, I assume the work continues on the controllers and lighthouses. The headset delay makes it more likely you’ll get all your Pimax stuff around the same timeframe.

Would I like my headset NOW? Of course I would, but I want a GOOD headset, not something that sits in my closet, gathering dust.

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Heck, I would be fine with a September release now. Because I’m not going to wear a headset much in the midst of summer here. Also, getting the controllers and lighthouses at the same time would be even better. Too bad I already went ahead and bought the 1080ti. I mined some crypto with it in the past months in an effort to make it pay for itself but those values dropped significantly now so that plan didn’t work hehe

Your points are valid but you can say what you want, there is just a pretty small but very vocal group of backers who apparently feel loads of entitlement and rarely have anything of constructive nature to share.

It’s the type of persons who - for all of their self-acclaimed wisdom, professionalism and working ethic - accomplish astonishingly little in their own lives, but use even the smallest opportunities to flame e.g. their “favourite” sports team’s players to be overpaid millionaire’s, etc. etc.
Must be a real pleasure to have these guys around you in real life :scream:

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Your posts used to be refreshing and insightful; I‘ve noticed you recently mainly engaging in ad hominem arguments against anyone that is criticizing Pimax and believe that to be a real shame.

Regarding the delay, it is exactly what I had expected. M1 was meant to be finished after CNY at the end of February/beginning of March. Then components were delayed, then trial assembly, then internal testing and beta selection, then 10 days of no feedback as to the viability of those M1 prototypes.

Now it apparently turns out the most recent lenses weren’t good enough, so we’re back at square one.

Looking at it realistically, Pimax showed v1, v2 and v3 with top of the line custom lenses to get the KS funding and marketing and government funding. That’s why impressions as to visual clarity etc were so great.

Then there probably was an internal v4 that wasn’t shown publicly, and when v5 appeared at CES 2018, shit really hit the fan because as it turns out, manufacturing custom lenses at scale and cost turned out to be a monumental task, possibly to hard to solve for a setup such as Pimax.

I‘m gutted I didn’t factor in the lense challenges when backing the KS but was under the impression they had solved the optics. They haven’t and most likely for the same reasons that the giants such as Facebook, Google and HTC haven’t either, with billions of R&D resources at their disposal.

It‘ll be interesting to see if they ever ship to backers and if so, what it is they will ship.

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So they might blow their entire KS budget on lense itterations forcing them to skip sending units to backers and try to get profits from actual sales? With the added promise to send units to backers when their product becomes profitable enough, which might also never happen or very late indeed. Consider me scared.

I don’t know about scared but yeah, this project has really been taking a turn for the worse and I’m annoyed at myself for not having realized the ‚lense switch‘ even though some concerned backers were pointing it out back then.

Wonderfully summarized one year of Pimax experience. And wonderfully replied to Axacuatl.

They will ship. Question is when and what.

Yes it is definitely starting to look like we are being led up the garden path to nowhere.

Constructive critisizm of Pimax is fine, and important.

But talking out of one’s ass just because one is so eager to get ones hands on the newest toy and is oh so disappointed and feels personally insulted by Pimax announcing delays is very reminiscent of a little boy. I am simply too old to waste my time reading through spoiled brat kind of comments and it annoys me to have to do that here so frequently.

[the following is not relevant for the other readers other than the addressee unless they want to waste their time]

Looking at your own latest comment, you really think it can be taken as serious criticism ? Let’s have a go at it:

Regarding the delay, it is exactly what I had expected. M1 was meant to be finished after CNY at the end of February/beginning of March. Then components were delayed, then trial assembly, then internal testing and beta selection, then 10 days of no feedback as to the viability of those M1 prototypes.

Ok, you recapitulate on what has happened. And as it is obvious that their internal testing showed persisting or new flaws (hence the three toolings they had to order as mentioned in today’s update), obviously a planned schedule which is based on “if testing goes well” will see delays.

Now it apparently turns out the most recent lenses weren’t good enough, so we’re back at square one.

?! Wait a minute, what are you concluding ? Did you even read their update which you are pretending to comment on ? They said they are done. They did NOT say that they are back to square one because the lenses are not working out as intended. This is the kind of incomprehensible out-of-ass comment I refer to above. Being negative as a general attitude, just waiting for the faintest of chances to jump out of the box.

"Looking at it realistically, Pimax showed v1, v2 and v3 with top of the line custom lenses to get the KS funding and marketing and government funding. That’s why impressions as to visual clarity etc were so great.

Then there probably was an internal v4 that wasn’t shown publicly, and when v5 appeared at CES 2018, shit really hit the fan because as it turns out, manufacturing custom lenses at scale and cost turned out to be a monumental task, possibly to hard to solve for a setup such as Pimax. "

Ok, as you apparently missed it, the V2/V3 lenses performed great on certain aspects, but some reviewers complianed about a list of issues I will not repeat because you will find them extensively covered in other threads of this same forum.

And in addition they generally said of the whole 8K/5K that it was a prototype and they would need to translate many components of it, not only the lenses, for production, so it was always a risk that the later production unit would perform different to the prototype. But sure, usually one would not expect to see substantially decreased performance as a result of such tooling for mass production.

But then you claim that Pimax intentionally mislead the public and backers by using “top of the line” lenses. I must have missed it - where is any kind of further proof or even indication of your claim being accurate ? There may be a decreased sweet spot, if the blurriness outside the middle as seen in the videos is due to the lenses, for which we do not exactly know which lenses were used (they just refer to V5 while that has seen at least three major revisions). But how did you exactly reach your conclusion that they actually had very expensive lenses in the V2/V3 other than just guessing that the better sweet spot must be expensive to achieve, and that Pimax actually used such expensive lenses ? Any information you want to share which is not yet out in the public which makes your claim anything else than just another out-of-the-ass comment ?

I‘m gutted I didn’t factor in the lense challenges when backing the KS but was under the impression they had solved the optics. They haven’t and most likely for the same reasons that the giants such as Facebook, Google and HTC haven’t either, with billions of R&D resources at their disposal.

I am no optics expert, but this comes back on your previous claim - so which super-expensive optics would resolve this so much better ? Or could it perhaps simply be the case, that the trick they used to create the wider sweet spot resulted in other issues, e.g. distortions, convergence problems, which they had underestimated and which were mentioned in some of the V2/V3 reviews and they decided to tackle, but then at the cost of the other upsides of their earlier approach ?
You seem to claim that the V2/V3 optics performed perfectly - this is simply incorrect, and your further considerations as a result don’t make that much sense as they are based on a wrong assumption.

It‘ll be interesting to see if they ever ship to backers and if so, what it is they will ship.

Ah, this is exactly the kind of helpful posts everybody really loves to read. What a good use of our time, thank you kindly.

Perhaps consider buying your next toy in a Best Buy around the corner. It’ll be there when you want it, you just need to pick it up and do not have to endure a wait with delays along the way. Kickstarter projects are just quite definitely not your cup of tea.

Again - I do not mean to be rude, but I just get so tired of people unloading their unfounded conspiracy & cheat shit on the forum amongst those interested in a serious conversion or just be flat-out negative like a small impatient kid about any update other than “Your 8K has been shipped and will be delivered in 10 seconds”. Pimax are a bunch of semi-amateurs, who just go ahead with what they think may be achievable, and when they post ETA’s they communicate consider the best case - but it did not always go that way, and that resulted in delay. With a company like Oculus you would not even have heard of the project yet, they would factor in 2 years of development, and you would get a highly polished product end of 2019. With Pimax you may get a great product middle of 2018 or a piece of junk end of 2018/early 2019 - that’s the bet the backers understood. Well, apparently most of them as clearly some were taken by surprise that they did not receive their perfect 8K end of January.

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I am just sharing my opinion. No need to take cheap shots.

Then please use your brain and enlighten us on the following paradox:

versus

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Factory = one of the vendors.

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Yeap ok, so now it is much more clear:

  1. so all the materials for M1 are now at one of the vendors (factory).
  2. you are waiting for new components from your vendors (probably factory/ies) to assemble M1

It does make lot of sense now. Thnx.

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