Who else? Business??? Show me some of your facts and not just your opinions.
Meinst er gibt Ruhe? GrĂźĂe
2 Likes
nVidia has only released the 4090. This is a $1600 GPU and will never be mainstream. Therefore, the entire 40 series will never be mainstream.
Sarcasm aside, I think Meta has wrecked the low end market for VR gear such that they couldnât even sustain their own prices. This has gutted competition anywhere near lower price points even for other of the larger players, much less a smaller company like Pimax.
The high end is the only part of the market that hasnât been ruined. Itâs also a part of the market that has languished without any real successor to the aging Valve Index. I believe it is very hungry. And so it makes a lot of sense for Pimax to go after this market.
What Pimax indicated in the MRTV interview is that the Reality series has been designed to be more mass producible. Itâs easier to build than the P2 headsets.
So Pimax is releasing their â4090â versions of it first. This makes a lot of sense because thatâs the market where they have the best chance of being able to get traction. If they opened with something more like a â4060â, look at what it would be up against in the market and the state of affairs there. It would be completely hopeless. Even a much larger company like Bytedance is going to struggle to dislodge an entrenched Meta with their Pico 4.
I think Pimaxâs strategy will be to get the Crystal and 12K out the door, get them debugged and stable, and get a standalone store established as best they can. And then assess what it looks like for making a â4070â and then a â4060â, etc. This would depend on multiple factors including how successful theyâve been at building up a standalone store so far and the state of the VR market. The Reality series needs to be solid and stable if it does go after that market because those customers are not going to be forgiving of any jankiness.
Building up the standalone store is going to be a big challenge. Theyâre going to have a chicken and egg problem with that. But since the Reality series is built on the XR2, it should at least be relatively easy for game devs to port their games to it. It would make sense for Pimax to devote effort to making that as painless as possible to lower the barriers.
But I donât think Pimax necessarily needs to go in this direction of trying to compete at lower price points. They could settle in as a high end boutique manufacturer. And the other direction they could grow in is the commercial market. They could go after Varjoâs business. The Reality series (and certainly the Crystal in particular) seems poised to be able to do that, too.
I think the design of what Pimax is doing with the Reality series gives them options to go in different directions depending on how things pan out.
With nVidia, we know the 4090 isnât all thatâs coming. The 40 series isnât going to be high end only. It will include lower end GPUs which will be very mainstream. We know this because GPUs are long since mature and released in well established patterns. With Pimax and VR, there isnât an established pattern yet. But Pimax has alluded to lower end models coming in the future.
2 Likes
Volkssport xD
Strange I found this chart from the same researcher which shows gamers are the majority users in VR regardless of location. The point still stands Pimax face the same challenges in the commercial world as they do in the home environment because gamers are the biggest end user of VR.
1 Like
Glad I could show you new sources to broaden the horizon. 
Now you just have to learn not to just pick out the things that suit you. 
3 Likes
Itâs a shame non of the charts I came across for manufacturer market share in any catagory even mentioned Pimax. So I go back to saying after 7 years Pimax are at ground zero while the likes of HTC and Meta dominate.
Thats not to say Crystal and the 12k couldnât be a raging success I hope they are.
I can tell you that besides the old Vive Pro, Star VR (yes indeed) and also Pimax 5k and 8kx are very popular at arcades. WMR and quest is nearly non-existent there.
The first bigger VR thing i was here germany in (2017 or so) had about 20 Pimax 4k.
3 Likes
âThe 12k is being marketed as mainstream.â
âNo, itâs not and theyâre talking about the reality line in general and thousands is nothing to mainstream.â
âThat doesnât count, theyâre still marketing mainstream because I said so.â
Sure thing mate. Youâre the only one moving the goalposts here, not Pimax. You can say youâre posting just Pimaxâs word all you want and act like youâre never wrong for it, but thatâs your interpretation and acting like youâve never been wrong wonât make it true.
You know thereâs a lot of stuff which is still bigger than some super tiny, little niche(Like, say where VR was back in 2016) and yet still far from mainstream(Like say a video game console), right? Something can still be profitable, in decent volume, and still not even close to mainstream, yet beyond niche. Look at games which might sell a few hundred thousand copies or very, very low millions vs the stuff which sells several million to even tens of millions of copies. I am not all arguing both ways here.
And I wanna be clear here, Iâm not even saying Pimax is going to pull things off wonderfully and trying to dismiss any criticism cause I just âwant to have funâ like youâve said, thatâs incredibly reductive and dishonest to throw at anyone whoâs not agreeing with you. Pimax has a lot they need to fix and work on if they want to seriously grow into even a moderately big player in the VR Market, and frankly I am not super confident theyâll manage it with how mixed their track recordâs been. But focus on those problems and criticize them for the problems they have and need to fix instead of constantly trying to spread false info like itâs fact and inventing more points to try and use against them.
4 Likes
Without intending to disrupt the debate here, wasnât there supposed to be a roll out of the Crystal in certain markets in mid-October? Has any news surfaced which some kind soul could translate for us?
7 Likes
i think it didnt happen,otherwise we had heard somethingâŚ
2 Likes
I would wager the SoC actually makes it much simpler for them. They remove a lot of compatibility and headaches with different hardware setups, they can do the vast majority of the hardwork for the specific hardware within the headset and greatly reduce the complexity in terms of getting PCVR going. The standalone stuff is just a bonus as the hardware is already there, I think thatâs a big part of why the standalone functionality has been delayed as itâs just a bonus and was never the focus or reason for the XR2 being added, plus most people want wireless as an option. It just makes sense from top to bottom imo.
Not really sure what your point is here. That they should instead release a much lower resolution headset? Iâm guessing that is still coming with some Reality series headset about the 1000 USD price.
What benefit is there for them to have lower resolution on the 12K? If someone is happy with 2160x2160 then they can still do that on the 12K and it will still be a better experience than the G2 (assuming the specs on paper work out and itâs functionally sound). If youâre worried about needing to run ânative resolutionâ like on a monitor (for example itâs common to recommend a 1440p monitor instead of a 4k monitor if you canât run 4k natively). Anyway, if thatâs your concern then you can put that to bed as itâs simply not how VR headsets work.
If I am spending as much money as the 12K costs then Iâm definitely wanting that insane resolution and look forward to being able to simply upgrade my PC as new hardware becomes available and my headset is able to take full advantage of it. It would feel like a headset upgrade each time you significantly upgrade your PC.
People are obsessed with the idea of âWhat can even run the 12k?â but seem to miss the point that you can get a great experience at resolutions lower than ânativeâ (which, again, isnât how it works with VR). Iâd rather have something that is somewhat âfuture proofedâ as in is beyond current GPUs and that I can keep for a good few years and keep upgrading into.
For all the concerns about the 12K being a unicorn that is being chased (which is a completely valid concern) I would put the panel resolution as one of the lowest concerns. Things like their inside out tracking, wireless streaming, eye tracking, DFR, software stack in general etc are all far more pressing concerns.
3 Likes
Not true at all. Crystal is a PCVR headset first and foremost, standalone is a bonus. Vive Focus 3 is the other way around. They are not in competition, they donât even sell to the same market (Focus 3 is enterprise only).
Nor have they ever intended for it to be.
Safe to assume they arenât expecting pimax exclusives, they are talking about getting developers to port their games over which is fairly feasible with thousands per week but those numbers are still a massive far cry from mainstream. 1000s per week is fairly low but consider OpenXR and the reality using the current default XR2 etc, it would be a pretty low bar to cross in terms of numbers to convince many VR developers to spend some time porting their game to Pimax. The term âhigh volumeâ only makes sense within context but youâre acting like Kevin saying âhigh volumeâ means on the levels of Meta or HTC or something.
They seem to be doing quite well as is. Is there any reason for you to be concerned about their financial situation other than pure speculation? The HP comparison doesnât really work as VR isnât HPâs main focus and bread and butter. Pimax is VR and nothing else. HP is massive and can easily just drop their VR department at a whim if they donât see it being as profitable as they want, or worth the hassle. Larger companies quickly run into much higher costs for doing things when they are so diversified. They also often want to take talent internally from one project to another more profitable one. Even if G2 sales were turning a profit, itâs absolutely no guarantee of the department staying around in a company that large. HP pulling out doesnât mean they werenât making a profit.
Pimax do VR and VR only. So the comparison doesnât work.
That is objectively wrong. Pimax has grown and matured hugely over the years. They absolute still have issues and a lot more growing to do, but to imply they are still at ground zero after all these years is objectively wrong and acts as a fine example of how you really are a pimax hater, even if you donât believe it.
Youâre saying this as a negative? Itâs a negative that investors, who invest full time as their entire thing, saw pimaxâs numbers and details and wanted in? You see that as a negative somehow? I must be misunderstanding you.
4 Likes
LOL I wish you had. This thread is going nowhere
2 Likes
Itâs hilarious how there are literally 2 teams here. You see the same people liking the same userâs posts with the same opinions and sides of things. Iâm included in this, so not saying itâs funny that other people do it. Itâs just when you take a step back and look at it, it is pretty funny.
Take a look at the last 2 comments. We just need @Atmos to like @Djonkoâs comment and weâll have the full roster in attendance. Maybe we should have some tournament in Pavlov or something to finally determine who is right? (Iâm joking of course)
1 Like
Believe it or not I donât come here for the fight. I want to see the Crystal launch. I want to see the Crystal reviews. I want to see some greatness from Pimax after $40 million of investment.
Weâve gone past another launch timetable as in mid October and now we have 3 working days left of the month.
It hard to take Pimax serious with anything. From bogus 12k videos, Q3 Crystal launches, Q4 12k launches, no hands on videos the list goes on.
Weâre here waiting, arguing amongst ourselves, the Pimax defenders v the realists. Iâm glad Iâm on the side of the realists which includes the press, YTers and anyone else who looks at VR as a whole.
The Pimax of today are the same Pimax of the Kickstarter days.
See, this is largely what should be focused on and-
So close. You were so close to saying something good without that air of superiority and condescention thatâs almost omnipresent in your posts, but you had to ruin it by misrepresenting people again.
If you say you donât wanna fight, then itâd go a long way to not include stuff like this all the time.
1 Like
@
Do you see the difference between our posts. My posts are about Pimax. Your posts are about me. Making personal attacks while excusing Pimax. Well done.
No, no, no. You donât get to do this all the time with some passive-aggressive, derogatory framing of people who disagree with you on any of your points about Pimax, and then complain when somebody bites back. You just did it in that very post by essentially calling anyone whoâs giving a disagreement a Pimax fanboy while the entire VR community is like you and a ârealistâ while people who donât agree arenât and are clearly just biased, unlike the rest of the VR community.
2 Likes