Thanks, will think it through before we decide the pricing.
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@SweViver
First thanks for the detailed review, really great job.
One question: How is performance (boost) on āsmallā (120Ā°) FOV? Does it make the most demanding games playable?
One thought: Seems you are running 1080Ti at 2Ghz which is already ~30% faster than Founder 1080Ti. So you will probably get only 20-30% increase from 2080Ti (Founder), if anything at all. Unless the generation performance leap is more than 70% but I find that unlikely. Anyway looking forward for your performance tests when it arrives.
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Iām wondering how it looks when you disable antialiasing in a game.
How does the 8Kās upscaler handle that? And how does that compare to an antialiased 5K+
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Once again, thank you so much for all your kind words and feedback guys 
It means a lot to me and I can admit I went as in-deep as possible MAINLY for you guys in this forum, because I knew you would be more interested than the average guy just watching youtube. I really hope the info has clarified some stuff, but I also understand some stuff are still a bit confusing, I will try to make things more clear in my upcoming videos where I test more resolutions and options, I promise! Also, as soon as my RTX 2080Ti arrives (probably this week) I will let you know all about it and bothe Pimax headsets!
I have been quite buzy the last 2 days, first yesterday with preparing the live stream and then the live stream itself, and today I had to sort out some things in real life, so I havent got any time to reply much comments yet, but I will give some answers here to begin with
Yes I skipped the 120FOV in the review as I never thought people would be that interested. Im gonna do more comparisons between the FOV optoins in upcoming videos, I promise (I have so many ideas haha, its just time limiting me). But shortly for now, I have only tried the Small FOV a couple of times and yes you will gain quite a good performance boost going for Small FOV, I would say maybe 15-20% more fps compared to Normal FOV. But more details coming later!
Yes, on distance looking at cars and the track and objects, you get more DEFINITION in the image. More details revealed despite the image being slightly more blurred. And thats especially once you go PiTool 1.25 and higher. I will cover this in upcoming parts!
Wow thank you so much Sjefdeklerk, it means a lot hearing it from you. I know you are a very sceptical guy in general, but believe me, you will be happily surprised with the Pimax, especially the 5K+ if you are more up for clarity than SDE.
Yes that could be right. I have not opened up the headset of course, as Im probably not allowed to. The M1+M2+5K is going back to Pimax soon, but I may do some disassembling on my final units It actually LOOKS like the panel ends on each right/left side, but I might be wrong. More info coming later on!
I tried Natural Locomotion in Skyrim VR (using the Skyrim profile) right before the live stream yesterday, upon a request, and yes it worked great! I could walk forward and backward just moving my hands and holding grip buttons. Only gave it 5 minutes because I was in hurry for the live stream preparation, but it was working as expected I would say.
Yes, I will test that. Max out PiTool, check image quality, compare fps, compare clarity, image definition, SDE and so on. That will be in one of my upcoming videos
Well, I would say the 5K+ does gain by going up to PiTool 1.25 and 1.5 but not that much as the 8K, and in my opinion, especially testing IL2, DCS and Project Cars, I would say 1.5 makes the 8K to surpass the overall image definition compared to 5K. More details on far distance. I would not say its sharper as you wont get that ānativeā clarity, but once you pump up the PiTool then you start to notice the limitation of 5K+. Its no big difference and many times you wont see much difference unless you really pixel peek on stuff. But the fact is that 5K does a much better job on PiTool 1 and thats why I see it as a winner, at least with todays Pascal GPUS. I hope RTX can manage to puch the 8K and give it some justice and the image quality vs performance balance it actually deserves. Despite the lack of ānative look clarityā, the 8K is really not bad at all.
Yes, in Berlin Robin said the colors can easily be changed, probably with software, but they have not decided to implement it or not. Right now, the blue chevron is already blue before you turn it on, as the plastic is blue. To change colors they would need to go with white/transparent plastics. Lets see how they do with thisā¦ Im not 100% sure here.
No I would say the opposite. Colors are more natural and less blueish on the 8K. For movie watching the 8K has a big advantage here. Also, the through the lens images are not always making it justice. As I mentioned earlier I had to use the S8+ camera manually and fiddle with shutter speed and ISO, and somehow some images got a big too dark or too bright. I did NOT post process any of the images, they are all straight of the camera/smartphone.
Yes it will, but not as much as the 8K can do.
Steam VR dashboard background with all those lines looks really clean and sharp on the 8K once you go PiTool 1.75 or 2.0 but on the 5K+ you are limited with the panel resolution.
- Haha wow I never thought about my voice lol
- I promise I wont haha, but in real life I actually drive safe!
- Thank you thats nice to hear. My english is really weird, and I cant really say Im working on it. There is no time for thatā¦ but hopefully I will improve over time
Yes I have tested Titanic Honor and Glory Demo 3, only on 8K so far, during the m1 phase. It looked great but not before I used PiTool 1.5 or even 1.75 and then it had really bad performance. Maybe 30fps. Its a very demanding demo. But yes, its beautiful once inside the ship!
Many of the 8K pictures has better definition in the details. Less clarity as mentioned before, but more definition and less SDE which is most important for Flight simmers I would say. But then again its a matter of personal taste.
Remember I made ALL through the lens images with PiTool 1.0 on both headsets
Haha yeah Im very often in Thailand and Asia (been there 14 times lol) so I always buy some cheap copies of everything. They are not bad at all, but still fake of course and costs maybe 10 bucks.
Again, as I replied in another forum thread and gave you an example (Assetto Corsa), you will see that many of the 8K pictures has better definition in the details. Not sharpness or clarity, but more details - and thats even om PiTool 1.0! As I said, all through the lens images were taken at PiTool 1.0 mainly to highlight the SDE and not overall quality difference. I will go deeper into the image quality topic in upcoming videos!
Im not favorizing here, and I clearly picked the 5K+ as āmyā winner. But thing is that 8K has huge potential when feeded with a proper signal having much higher resolution. Not until then, you will see the benefits of the higher panel resolution and slightly less SDE. There IS a difference no doubt. I dont think the average gamer will appreciate that, but flight simmers such as IL2 and DCS will prefer it.
As a reference a LOT of backers in Berlin thought the same after testing Elite or IL2 on both headsets. 8K was just the winner. You need to separate clarity and definition. Its two different things.
I would say you will NOT see CA until you look at the edges of the binocular overlap (as I covered in deep in the review). The CA you see in the through the lens is most likely because of the fact Im using a cheap Samsung Galaxy S8+ camera, and its VERY difficult to align the centre of the lens to the camera every time.
Being in VR with the 8K, you wont see much CA unless the image is very low resolution with jagged edges, which clearly makes CA more visible and kind of exaggerates it.
Yes thats right. Im not sure what it will take, but I hope the RTX 2080Ti will manage to give a stable framerate with PiTool 1.5, SteamVR on at least 50% and 80fps. I think many games will give you that. Most likely not DCS or X Plane 11, but the other simulators should be able to reach a good FPS. remember a lot of the IL2 testings, including DCS testings (partially) and X-Plane 11 in the review was made with PiTool 1.5 just because these sims looked poor and VERY jaggy on PiTool 1.0 - even on the 5K. Those simulators needs more rendered resolution whatever headset you use.
I promise I will My pre-order still says 20th september, so if Im lucky I will have it on Thursday!
Yes, definitely. I see this as an advantage, especially in simulators or watching movies. I did not list it as a āproā or advantage in the review as I think people might think different about this, but for me, the warmer temperature feels more natural and pleasant to look at.
The only reprojection Pimax headsets are using now is a head-movement reprojection that is built in the Brainwarp. Braindwarp is a set of several reprojection methods, but so far only one is added, and that one is 100% identical to the SteamVR Asynchronous reprojection.
Note that Pimax headsets do NOT use any of the SteamVR reprojections, so changing them makes no effect at all.
Its different for every person. For simmers, the SDE and more definition in the image will be more important than clarity, especially in flight sims. But for VR gamers playing all sorts of stuff or only games like Skyrim or even Job SImulator, the clarity will make those games āpopā a little bit more and look more clean and sharp. I love simulators, but Im still an average gamer playing all sorts of stuff, so thats why I lean more against clarity than definition, even if I can appreciate the definition 8K is creating in simulators especially.
Thats a very good question. I assume its a matter of the game engines. Note that the in-game SS of 2.0 in DCS made a HUGE difference. Put it on 1.0 and it looks ugly, on 1.6 it starts to look OK. But it on 2.0 and you get the sharpness you expect. Add higher PiTool and you really see the huge potential in both Pimaxes, but especially the 8K on far distance.
I would say this has to do with the engines. Same for IL2, Project Cars 1 and 2, and many other sims, and even many Unreal Engine games. They just need more PiTool or ingame SS to look good or great.
Thats a good question. We will know once my RTX 2080Ti arrives in a few days. Until then, no one can answer that
Slightly yes. It will get a bit more definition on the 5K+ and less jagged edges of course as the game itseld renders in a higher resolution, but as I mentioned above, the 8K have better definition in details, both up close and especially on distance with PiTool 1.5 and up.
Remember, the higher render resolution gives you much more details than just supersampling it in SteamVR āafterwardsā. Its like rendering a 4K image vs a 1080p image, then downscaling both to 720p and upscaling to 1440p again - of course the 4K source will give you more definition and details and less jagged edges.
But also, the 5K+ is limited by the panel resolution, and even if an upscaled image on a 4K panel wont look native and instead āmeltā pixels together, the overall percieved image detail and definition WILL be higher on the 8K. So no, the 5K+ is not always a step ahead. I would say its always gonna be a step ahead in terms of creating a better balance between image quality and performance, but not a step ahead if you talk maximum image quality.
Yes I could see color banding on the 5K especially in the dark blue āThis is it/Viveā SteamVR dashboard background. This was not visible on the 8K. Also in Paranormal Activity I could see slight banding on a few walls, where I did not see this on the 8K.
Yes, that will be added in upcoming videos!
Well as said above already, I did not open up the units so I cant really be 100% where the panels ends on each side, but just taking the visible area on the panels, the utilization looked identical on both headsets. But I cant open up the m1/m2 units as they are not mine and will be sent back to Pimax soon. But I might do some experiments later on!
Yes and no. Of course the GPU will decide what fps you get, and Pimax is using head motion reprojection so your head movements will always be silky smooth just as any other headset.
But no it will NOT be as Oculus Rift, as Rift is using ASW reprojection that smoothens out all movements in game, not only head movements.
Pimax fps will be exactly as on the Vive, because Vive/Vive Pro do not have any ASW either. Head movements will be smooth but not for example a car driving by, it the game runs in 60fps. You will see judder.
As I said in the beginning here, I skipped the 120FOV in the review as I never thought people would be that interested. Im gonna do more comparisons between the FOV optoins in upcoming videos. If it can play the most demanding games? No I dont think so, I think you will still need more than 1080Ti. Remember the Small FOV is still rendering a higher resolution than Vive Pro.
Yes thats right, I have boost clocks stable at 2.05Ghz. Its the MSI Gaming X version. But I also ordered the 2080Ti MSI Gaming X and expect it to OC quite well So in total, I hope I can push the RTX another 20% just by OC. Lets hope at leastā¦
Some games looks MUCH better without AA on the Pimax and SHOULD be disabled. Games like Skyrim and some other simulators. You will also gain some performance by disabling that. I would say the scaler handles non-AA games better, as long as it is feeded with a very high resolutionā¦ I remember @Yata_PL mentioned in Berlin when he tried IL2 (or was it Assetto?) that the image was clearly better and sharper once we turned off AA and turned up PiTool.
Remember, removing AA will require you to run higher PiTool to remove jagged edges.
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I think the opinion is different from the yanfeng
If you are more into simulation games as me, Iād suggest 5K+, as every pixel counts in these games. If you are more into action, adventure, RPG, sports games, etc., which relies more on overall aesthetics, Iād suggest 8K
So I am still confuse, I donāt play simulation or driving game so much, my game is adventure and other action and I think that it use a long time of playing and I donāt want to see sde anymore, but I little understand your opinion because when we play game for a long time, we will not notice sde too much, so the clarity is more important for better experience.
I think people have different focusing.
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Wow that conclusion is very surprising to me I would say, and I understand why you get so confused 
Indeed, we are all very different. Maybe not a bad thing after all hehā¦
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@SweViver
Hi Martin, Any chance you can show a comparitive photo for the same scene where PiTool is 1.5 for the 8k and 1.0 for the 5k ? This might help illustrate what you mean about the sharpness of the 8k matching the 5k+ clarity with enough supersampling gpu powerā¦
In truth though, it might take 3-4 years before GPUs reach a point where the 8k starts to match or overpower the 5k in terms of clarity with supersampling with in game playable performance (where SDE becomes the deciding factor). People are talking about future proofing, but by that stage, another headset will probably be in town pushing hardware boundaries again. To me this is more about longer term potential of the 8k (which may or may not be met) vs existing proven ability of the 5k+
I have a feeling that with the 5k+ will probably not be improved much further as most of itās potential is being shown. Whereas firmware updates and potential lens or panel changes in future revisions of 8k might still occur to improve things.(and that might never be achieved)ā¦and then there is foveated rendering which might also flip things around if done well.
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I know, i requested it. XD Thank you.
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Hey @SweViver! Thanks for all your efforts!
FYI, the interwebz is reporting that 2080 Ti shipping will be delayed by a week due to inventory issues.
When I play on āacerā , when I donāt move my head, the pixel is great and so I donāt care about sde. But when I move my head, I can see more sde, not stable pixel. It look like vertical line between pixel is appeared for a short time. That the reason I think that sde is more important for action and adventure game.
No much problem on samsung.
5k+ has vertical and horizontal pixel pattern (I think this is same acer). while 8k have diagonal pattern (this is same rift and maybe samsung too, not sure).
And you talk about ādot patterntā which you can see sometime, that I think why 8k is should be a better choice for me, but clarity is important too after I try to up resolution to be 400 in Hell blade.
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I asked in another thread. You obviously not got round to it. BTW the 2080Ti is delayed until next week. I hope you are correct and itās this week. I ordered mine instantly so hopefully in first batch. Anyway, I digress.
Q. If the RTX 2080 Ti, gives you the expected 30-40% increase in performance over the 1080 Ti and you had to choose one headset would you still recommend the 5K+?
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Logically speaking, 5k+ still hasnāt reached full in game performance ability peak yetā¦ You can tell by the framerates in his samples,ā¦ and also not reached a point where you can supersampleā¦ To me the 2080Ti is probably the ideal starting point for 5k+ in terms of reasonable in game playability.
Whereas Iām guessing that it will take the 3080Ti to come along to make the 8k shine and even 5k+ would still be strong competition because we probably canāt even play games at full detail yet probably even with a 2080 TI.
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I believe the quoted ā30-40% increaseā is for general, non-VR related rendering.
Given, the reported additional VR specific rendering improvements, I would expect (after drivers, etc catch up) to get an even bigger bump.
Hereās to hoping, anyway! 
Glad Iām not the only one who reacted to that.
I suppose one possibility (other than gamma etc) could be that the display has a firmware option enabled, that limits it to āTV-safeā value rangeā¦
ā¦also hoping the rumors about colour banding are greatly exaggerated. :7
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didnāt he say even with 50% extra SS required the 5K+ seemed better, pretty sure he did that with the easier to run games with the 1080ti
Maybe you can do a comparison (from memory) of the M2 unit to your personal unit when the time comes. This could show if there are any sizeable issues with production consistency.
From reports itās only the FE edition, 3rd party should still ship on time, and preorders for the FE will slowly release along the week its delayed. Looks to be only the RTX 2080ti FE on store shelves will be delayed one week.
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I recall him saying that he plans to turn both of them up to the max settings in order to compare the āpeakā performance of each (even though framerate would be abysmal).
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That would be good to see as well.
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Iām looking forward to your IL2 test with 2080 ti, if thereās going to be a clear winner in headsets. Itās really really important to see distant objects in a combat flight sim especially when flying full real, but at the same time you have to be able to read instruments and have decent fps. So, not an easy task here, but IL2 addicts are counting on You, no pressure:)
And Thank You for Your time and dedication Martin!
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