@pimaxusa Where's Monday's update?

I think the name sword is because if all they have… is a simple controller and no finger detector.
You wish you had a sword and perform the harakiri
:joy::joy::joy:
@PimaxUSA
If they wanted repercussion with their update. You’ve done it! :scream::crazy_face:
But not in the desired way… More like disappointing a lot. :clap:t2::clap:t2::clap:t2::sob::fearful::weary::rage::dizzy_face::angry:

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While I’m not a fan of the name, I do think these controllers could be legit. Also, I’m really happy with my 5K+ headset. Just thought I’d add some positivity here…

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To be fair its a Kickstarter not a pre-order. You’re helping the company financially to develop the products they want to release. And you get a ‘reward’ for that.

So I think ‘to a point’ that its acceptable that design decisions made then may and will change as time goes on. Nothing to spin there, this is what the product looks like and does now.

What’s been totally unacceptable is the poor communication with backers over the development of these products, the changes that are made and reasons why. Instead, its silence and ninja edits combined with still a lot of questions and confusion.

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You may want to rethink that statement…

Accountability on Kickstarter

In particular:

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter’s Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don’t. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

When Pimax posted on their KickStarter page a picture of controllers, clearly with finger-sense, with the words, “We Offer”… that reads like a promise to me.

We all filled out a survey to choose which controller (both explicitly portrayed as having finger-sensing) that we wanted. Minor details with ergonomics may obviously change, but a promise of finger-sensing functionality is ‘locked-in’.

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OK, let me rethink… nope… I stand by it.

Of course this is in development stuff, we knew controllers were not finalised and I totally accept any kickstarter will have the option or even need to make changes to their designs as required.

If anyone is treating kickstarter as a preorder system and expects nothing to change then, well… not much I can say on that…

I actually think what they are offering makes the most sense. An option that is in line with knuckles, and what is likely a cheaper alternative.

I expect the reward will be the version with sense, they just removed the ‘choice’ and instead has stick and mini-trackpad on top. Maybe they will offer people to drop to the sense-less version and give a voucher for the difference? who knows.

Either way I understand the frustration, I’ve got plenty with pimax recently. But on this I think the bigger problem has been not talking to the backers through the process.

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Yeah, when it’s dialed in my 5K+ headset is sensationally good. And I do like some of the pitool features they have added.

It’s just a shame about the other stuff.

No doubt, a Kickstarter reward is not a pre-order, but that’s where our agreement ends. The Kickstarter document does raise valid questions as to Pimax’s obligations to fulfill the reward as promised.

We can argue semantics over whether a picture on the Kickstater page explicitly showing finger-sensing functionality constitutes a promise.

But companies are made and lost on consumer opinion and Pimax has little good will left with backers.

Poor communications, long support response times, bad cables, poor material engineering, etc… the list is much longer than it should be.

Does Pimax really want to add a controller fiasco to that list?

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Our plan is to have a simple system in place to allow adjustments like the one you mention.

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I believe the picture and so the ‘offer’ was published in the final few hours of the kickstarter, the majority of the kickstarter this wasn’t even an offer. but yes its something else they are backtracking on. Plenty of other things they said during the kickstarter didn’t happen.

In this case, I actually think this is for the best, (obviously they won’t please everyone).

My primary point is the backtracking could be understandable if they didn’t just leave people to debate for themselves what the hell is going on, the backers should already know by now what’s happening with the controllers and why.

Complete agreement. Idle minds are the devil’s playground. :wink:

Conservative timing is shown in the release. The hardware engineering piece has moved to production oriented tasks now plus firmware iterations etc. While the Sword will be out first we should be able to provide some guidance on the Sense reasonably quick.

I think one of the takeaways from this is the controller development was a large engineering effort and now a lot of those engineers are on to the other accessories and not long before almost all of them are.

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Please tell me whether backers will get Sword Sense controllers with finger tracking?

And when will this happen, if Sword Sense is not ready yet? (approximate date)

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Next step is to provide pricing, more detailed availability timing and a system where the choice of the Sword or Sense can be made.

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The kickstarter page says clearly we get both versions…

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The most fundamental items to constitute a package are headset, lighthouses and controllers. Shipment of the controllers will complete the basic package. We had so much feedback on the controllers from CES and other venues we are offering the Sword and Sense variants.

Pricing and a lot of requests went into the feature set included in the two main variants, intended to cover the maximum cross section of wish list items.

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:slight_smile:

I think design wise they may have opted for best effort compatibility. now they have a controller that is essentially like the vive wand, and one like the valve index controller (knuckles). No hybrid option that may have iffy software support.

or… it may be the sense part is just taking too long and they want something out there quicker? :man_shrugging:

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@PimaxUSA which variant will be included in the backers reward package?

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All I can add at the moment on timing is both devices went through the design phase and are in the firmware, refinement and production phase. The Sense firmware/software is much more elaborate and requires more time than the Sword.

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I, for one. am excited about the Sense announcement. :slight_smile: I hope second half shipment doesn’t get delayed.

We will be putting out some videos probably late in the month showing the two devices in operation. It’s going to be a busy month…

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