It’s difficult to fix an issue that only a small percentage of users experience. There are so many components in between. Incompatibility with the mainboard (sound drivers and LED garbage that tend to slow down the system), poorly tuned memory, poorly distributed NVME SSDs reduce the bandwidth. Incompatible Bios Settings … … … …
Pimax actually works directly with Nvidia, so regular problems would have been noticed long ago, i think.
I can still remember a few years ago there were similar problems where everyone drove the HMD manufacturers and Nvidia crazy. The culprit in this case was fpsVR, where an error crept in during an update. Two weeks later, users experienced the miracle healing.
Asus Bloatware is also a great Candidate for problems
What about when there is no bloatware or overclocking software present?
I have nothing of that kind installed, I have a very clean self-build PC, no lighting software, no OC software, no monitoring software etc. I don’t use FPSVR, or any other software and in testing the lag is present m everything including Pimax Home, so no steam VR or Open XR or anything running.
I would be very happy to identify if there was some rogue application on my PC that is causing this.
And if I put my 3090 back in there is no lag. So something is different about the 4090 and how it interacts with VR.
The easiest way to rule out your system is to plug the card into another computer and test again. The 4090 wants a lot more fodder than the previous generation. The culprit can be anywhere.
Btw, have you switches to PCIe 3 in your Bios?
You can also do a run with CapFrameX. There you have several graphs to check things. Any hardware log would be helpful, even the contents of your task manager.
It’s as though you didn’t read my intial post here. It isn’t my memory, bloatware, lighting software, monitoring software, any of that because the problem was not present with the RTX 3090 that the 4090 replaced. The only change to the system that was made was upgrading the GPU and updating the display driver (via DDU).
Also, if you read my last post here someone in the r/Vive sub-reddit where I also posted this problem stated that they had the same issue with the Varjo Aero and that it was rectified by Varjo via a firware update:
My varjo aero had similar problems with 4090 untill varjo updated their drivers. It works great now and had something to do with the way compression is handles in the new cards. I suppose it’s up to htc and pimax to fix their stuff
I agree with you, removing the monitoring software only makes it less occasional.
But I will give you another perspective. I play First person Tennis and IB Cricket as with Eleven TT. The moment any monitoring software are on, the physics of these games change and becomes slower. Where I can normally serve at 100 mph will now be 70 mph. The moment I close any monitoring software, my game physics are back to normal.
This is not noticeable in regular games like FPS etc
Even though we close all monitoring software, windows itself is monitoring as in task manager and I think that that’s what’s causing the occasional stuttering with all other monitoring apps closed.
If Varjo, could solve the problem, hope Pimax will look into it. Any solution from Nvidia or Microsoft will take time.
Right now I use Cable Guardian for my center marker as I cannot use FpsVR.
It was a regular problem for Varjo. Means every user was affected.
Here, however, it only affects a small fraction of users. It cannot be ruled out that it is due to drivers, but it is also possible that the GPU does not work with your combination of hardware/software
We only get closer to the solution by excluding it, and that only works on your computer. I don’t have to look at myself, everything is going well for me.
So, for the third time, did you try setting the PCIe bus to 3?!? and can you post a log from HardwareMonitor or something similar?!
I have MSI z590 Gaming Edge Wifi, 64gb Corsair Dominator RAM, i9-11900k, Samsung 970 & 980 pro, Corsair HX1500i. All very mainstream and high quality hardware.
No additional software installed other than Nvidia drivers, Pitool.
Tried PCIe gen 3&4, rebar on/off etc. XMP is off, gaming mode is off but tried on, tried overclocking auto and non-overclocking CPU, no overclocking on GPU and no overclocking software installed. Page file is 256gb. Plenty of storage overhead.
Ran tests for such as burn-in and stress, and all operate perfectly.
Provided logs to Pimax, Zotac and Nvidia, no issues found.
There’s nothing more to test, or provide info on, or oddities that could cause compatibility or performance issues. If I was running a pile of crap software or weird / cheap hardware then I would say yes. But I have specifically put together a Pc that should perform well and be reliable.
I put the 3090 back in and it is perfect. Put the 4090 and movement lag I cannot resolve no matter what I change.
** 9900k* ** 3000mhz corsair vengeance* ** founders 3090* ** asus maximus XI hero wifi mobo* ** Corsair RM 850 watt psu* ** corsair h800i aio* ** 1tb 970 samsung nvme* ** 4000x corsair case and win 10 home*
I was having the issue in the new system so here is what i did:
** Took out the 4090 and put it in the 9900k system. no stutters. ** Took the 3090 and put it in the 13900k system. no stutters. ** Put the 4090 back in the new system and tried the adapter that came with the GPU and also tried the 600w cable that came with the MSI PSU. Still stuttering. ** rolled back driver. still stuttering. ** reinstalled driver. still stuttering. ** verified game cache/scanning, uninstalled/reinstalled games. still stuttering. ** tried v sync on/off, gsync on/off, nvidia boost on/off, reduced buffering/triple buffering on/off. still stuttering. ** tried low settings/max settings. still stuttering. ** Unlocked FPS and locked fps 144/240. still stuttering.*
In this case the simple solution was to set the XMP profile from 1 to 2.
Also here in the forum it seems that people with 9. and 10. gen are not affected. I’m just trying to help get to the bottom of this.
@vulcan78
btw, your pixel fill rate and clock looks interesting. Are you undervolted? But it can also just be a power-saving option in the BIOS, and the values go up again under load.
I took that snapshot whilst mining on Nicehash to heat my apartment @ 60% PT. (Temps are currently 50c core and 52c memory junction). It’s not much, but it does offset my electricity bill.
There is nothing wrong with the card if that’s what you’re getting at:
This is @ .950 v, 2700 MHz core, +750 memory, peak power draw in Timespy: 350w, in gaming ~270-300w, as Derbauer pointed out, AD-102 is clocked way too far over the power / efficiency curve.
So basically, -4% performance vs 100% PT and default voltage / freq curve but with roughly 75w less power draw?
It’s not my card, or related to GPU load induced frame-time spikes, the issue happens in SteamVR Home with 35% GPU load.
Also, running the card in PCI-E Gen 3 doesn’t alleviate the problem but thanks for the suggestion.
The amazing thing about AD-102 is how efficient it is compared to GA-102. Running Marvel’s Spiderman Remastered completely maxed out at 5120x1440 (RT maxed) with DLSS 3 I can use my mining profile at 60% PT and 180w and it’s ~155 FPS everywhere whereas the 3090 was around 300-350w undervolted (.931v) @ 80 FPS. Average power draw in VR and 2D is typically under 300w, so easily 100w less power draw vs the 3090.
Only in home? or also in ALL games? I haven’t take a look to steam home because it doesn’t pose a challenge for the 4090 anyway.
According to my experience so far, the 4090 behaves really a bit bitchy when underloaded. So I adjusted my games accordingly.
No, 100% of Varjo owners experienced exactly what I and Simultaneous are describing and I am willing to wager that all 8KX owners have this problem but can’t feel / discern the lag. If I disable MSI AB it reduces the stutter / frame-skipping to once every 30 seconds or so and it is useable, albeit with lag / latency.
I am willing to wager ALL Pimax 8KX’s are affected irrespective of FOV, Refresh Rate, or hardware combination and those that say they have no problem simply cannot discern the latency.
The problem, pointing to the Varjo Aero owner’s comment, is most likely due to DSC / Compression and can only be fixed via the HMD manufacturer ACKNOWLEDGING said problem and WORKING to resolve said problem IMMEDIATELY with a firmware update.
These people “doesn’t look like anything to me” couldn’t tell the difference if G-Sync was enabled or disabled in a 2D game. Guaranteed 100% this is affecting all 8KX’s. Otherwise, what is the variable? Simultaneous has clearly demonstrated the variable is the RTX 4090. And the Varjo Aero owner clearly relayed that unlike Pimax, Varjo ACKNOWLEDGED that the way compression and DSC is handled has changed with the 4090, unlike Pimax however, a $2k headset means PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK QUICKLY TO RESOLVE SUCH PROBLEMS instead of circle-jerking “is the problem real” “many users don’t experience it” “should we do testing on our end?” “nah, simply issue copy and repaste replies: disable HAGS and MSI AB”.
Pimax is absolute trash in this regard and I’m extremely hesitant, not looking forward to any future hardware releases (we can expect 12KX Q4 2023 at the earliest and it will be riddled with problems).
It took them 6 months to fix the Tundra Tracker Assignment problem after I and a few others brought it to their attention here!
6 months!
So my 8KX will sit in the closet an I will use my VP2 at 90 Hz for the time being.
you’re repeating yourself, and bet you, I’ve shown once before, not just in words, but in graphs, that it’s not at every performance. The 10ms drop from 90 to 85FPS is irrelevant because you can’t see it.
why would all varjo owners report this problem yet only a small minority of 8kx owners report it? are varjo owners more sensitive lol? i experience no lag, nor do most 8kx owners, simple as that. i use AB too.
You keep jumping to unwarranted conclusions like this. It’s not helpful because it reduces the strength of your arguments and makes it look like all you want to do is trash on Pimax. That will tend to push the companies involved to ignore your rantings as a waste of their time rather than paying any attention to the work you’ve done.
I think there’s enough evidence to show that there’s a real issue here. However, the exact cause and what company is at fault and what customers are affected can not be substantiated from the data available and some posts on reddit.
There’s a good chance that the issue with the Varjo Aero is related and that Pimax might be able to resolve the issue the same way. But then again, the situation there could actually be different. It might be a related variation or a different issue altogether which produces similar symptoms. We also don’t know whether Varjo actually fixed a bug on their end, or just figured out how to work around a bug in nVidia’s driver.
I do think Pimax should have their engineering investigate this issue whether or not it is Pimax’s fault. This is probably worth taking a look at for them. It would certainly be helpful if Pimax’s engineering could receive insight from Varjo’s findings, but I somehow doubt the two companies are on colloquial speaking terms. Pimax might be able to get that information through nVidia, however. Otherwise Pimax might have a situation where their engineering has little to sink their teeth into even if they wanted to investigate it because they can’t reproduce the issue because it doesn’t seem to affect every Pimax installation the way it apparently did for Varjo.
There’s a good chance that their engineering isn’t actually ignoring it. Pimax’s engineering could also be taking a look into it already in some capacity. In these kinds of circumstances, the left hand frequently doesn’t know what the right hand is doing within a company. Engineering departments frequently look into things without officially announcing it (in every company I have worked for). Further, companies need to be careful about announcing when they are looking into something like this because just saying they’re investigating it can cause customers to decide they’re guilty when it may not be their fault.
Indeed I do know from discussions that pimax has not been able to reproduce this issue save maybe with Monitoring software issue as mentioned with Afterburner and similar.
These aren’t frame-time spikes, when the stutter occurs there is nothing on the graph in fpsVR. Moreover, the primary issue isn’t the random frame-skipping, it’s the latency / lag that does not appear on a graph and that many people who claim to have no problems have honed in on this stuttering issue as though that’s the primary issue I’m describing.
I already stated the primary issue is latency / lag, the random frame-skipping that DOES NOT APPEAR ON MONITORING SOFTWARE I.E. FPSVR is annoying but not the primary issue.
