Apara Micro Oled HMD Discussion

We would develop that internally if we went down that path. Would need one heck of a plan to compete with Facebook in that arena. But anything could happen.

I would add on the panels a lot of them are only produced in tiny volume, enough to send to a few people for reviews etc. but not enough to really establish a competitive presence. Facebook actually has this limitation more than anyone as they must obtain very high volumes and be able to be assured the supply will keep rolling in.

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Hopefully the next Pimax headsets will also be able to adjust the eyesight.

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…and possibly do this in sharp-elbow-race competition with grand champion of the discipline, Tim Cook… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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You mean the dioptre? ( Theres a word I just learned recently)

How does the adjust ment work anyway? It looks like they are rotating the lens. Dioptre is tge measurment of the curve of the lense whic affects the zoom level of what you see.

Would that sort of adjustment even work with Pimaxes hybrid lenses? And how, since the lenses aren’t round ?

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It would move one of the lenses in the train back and forth, like in any camera lens; Expect the rotating drum to be threaded.
In the old GearVR phone case VR headset, which had this adjustment, you only had the one lens to consider, which is an easy proposition; With pancake lenses, there are apparently three elements, and you want to displace the middle one.

A simple screw encapsulating the whole lens would not work with the non-round Pimax lenses, correct. You might perhaps consider moving the screen instead of the lens. Some of us, who have been experimenting with diopter modifications, have simply been shimming the lenses up a bit, for a slightly increased distance between the lens and the display panel, but that’s a fixed diopter modification. :7

EDIT: So here’s a really silly bit of toying:


That Oculus Rift DK1 lens sits in a threaded mounting, and can be screwed in and out - closer to the p8kX lens screen, or farther away. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Sounds complex, time consuming and expensive.

It could really solve alot of issues people have with distortion and finding the sweetspot of the panel to eye distance could be adjusted but…

Pimax usually has a “see something the competition is doing and swerve to implement it” approach and this has bitten all of us and them in the past.

It results in frakenstein design that turns out to be less modular than they hoped. And poor quality

Examples

  • Eye tracking that requires you to cut your face gasket to insert

  • 8KX that had to sacrifice top usb because housing wasnt big enough

  • non standard usb c ports that are actually usb2 on 5K+

  • having to resort to short usb cabke to plug eye tracking in due to lack of usb-c port on top

  • not being able to use Hand tracking module and eye tracking at the same time

  • DMAS speakers that dont sound as good as the Index speakers they teied to copy.

  • Knuckles clones that they couldn’t figure out how to make joysticks and buttons work.

  • Wireless module which we likely never get as on MRTV’s impromptu livestream with PimaxUSA basically admitted that the frankenstein approach to modularity didn’t work out as they hooed because the wireless module would take too much bandwidth from the ill conceived usb ports on their “future poofed” hmd design.

My point here is that,

they have been working on the 12K for years now and have made promises which I assune they have thought through such as built in wye tracking and hand tracking bosy tracking, looks like the designed with the wireless in mind this time, and have learned from their past mistakes.

This dioptre thing sounds cool and all but id it isnt in the plan a year from when they plan to release they certainly should NOT try to shoehorn in any changes to the design now.

Pimax please stick with what you’ve got on your plate and deliver this time. There will always be some competitor with some new brilliant idea but you dont need to do everything.

If the headset promised has all of the features already promised and nothing beyond that It would absolutely blow everyone away if it was actually released on time and had zero issues.

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Well, first of all: I wasn’t making a suggestion to Pimax - only directly answering your question. :7

Then… I completely fail to see how any of the things that didn’t turn out the way you would expect, would be the fault of course changes inspired by what the competition is doing; Pimax managed all of that by themselves, and I’ll tell you right now that I fully expect we’ll find plenty of fine print on every single one of the claims about the p12k, once units start arriving in the hands of customers, whether Pimax locks themselves into an isolated bunker, safely away from the world, or not. :7

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Found ppd info on arpara on a website:

“Even if 3514 ppi is converted into a more intuitive ppd (pixels per degree), it has reached 38.1ppd (theoretical value, the calculation does not take into account the picture cropping, the actual is slightly lower), far exceeding Oculus Quest 2 (about 20 ppd), Xiaopai 8KX (approximately 21 ppd) and HP Reverb G2 (approximately 24 ppd)”

Varjo aero is 35 ppd (google search).
Btw is Xiaopai Pimax?

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Pimin perhaps, if that’s “xiao” in the sense “little”. :wink:

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Sorry that wasn’t aimed at you. It was my frustration with Pimax.

:v:

I think a big reason for the sudden appearance of the pancake lense in both Facebook, HTC and a seemingly small Chinese company Arpara is due to them using lenses which are made by 3M:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/display-solutions-us/solutions/ar-vr/

In the video they state they can support dioptre adjustment.

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I think a few example you listed ended up hardly making any differences in the end.

First, after many many many playarounds with eyetracker, I’ve come to the conclusion of it’s a flawed piece of equipment, mainly because the sweet spot on the 8kx is small. Any attempt to look slightly to the side resulted blurriness, dynamic foveated rendering can’t fix optics. In the end it was no better than simply use fixed foveated rendering for fps gains, which you only needed a nvidia 2000 series and up don’t even require the purchase of the eyetracker, the additional weight, reflection, heat, eyelashes touching the eyetracker lens, the inaccuracy of tracker with glasses on, a 5m usb 3 cable to your pc for better accuracy and speed,and finally TAKING UP AN USB PORT on the 8kx.

In the end, you could just install your hand tracker, and skip the eyetracker. I didn’t purchase the handtracker so I can’t comment on that but I don’t see it’s being supported on pretty much anything, where in quest 2 it is a real feature you could use.

I thought the DMAS sounded great, I would have been super impressed with it, if not for the whine.

It’s past the time to dwell on the missed opportunities but I finally know what exactly I need to look for in my future hmd, thanks to pimax, sort of, the that headset taught me everything lol.

Oh and about modularity, It all sounds great, how you could upgrade and change stuffs around etc.
I never got to do any of that, in pretty any product I have purchased in the past, where they used this marketing term to suggest future proofing. Nope, never happened. Things get obsoleted before any modularity happened and manufacturers move on to their new line of product. Which i predict will be the fate for the wireless module on 8kx.

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According to Bradley the Apara panels are the cheaper low quality version of micro OLED from a diferent vendor and your right most of the fabs for eMagin are yet to be setup. All produced in China though so you guys have front seat :+1:

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Did I miss something or Apara connected directly to PC with FULL RES mode will work only at 70Hz?

For simracers 90Hz is a minimum :frowning:

Speak for yourself. I race with my 8KX at 75 and sometimes 60.

Then again…i’m no sim racer. :grin:

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Im interested partly because I miss oled and that form factor and ppd.

price doesn’t hurt either

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Oled, form factor, ppd, diopter adjustments, aio and price, real working engineering sample proves the product exist and near completion, are the reason I’m looking at this with interest.

The fov might be a big downgrade but they are many upsides apart from this.

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I thought it was only available through Kickstarter for $399 and the campaign doesnt start until the end of November? I reserved a place in line on Kickstarter for like a $1.

I believe PPD was around 35ish

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After researching OLED panels even the worst OLED’s are usually better than LCD. On the other hand QLED like the P12K unless are good quality can be worse than OLED but can exceed OLED if better quality. Hoplefully Pimax did thier homework and are using excellent quality Qled panels

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