Okay so i had a little time to waste and was thinking about how a modular Valve Knuckle Controller could look like.
Actually the idea is pretty simple you just remove the Trackpad and instead create 2 Cylinder shaped modules that can be changed to you preference.
Don’t know exactly how the conection of the 2 modules to the controller would work but i was thinking about microUSB or pins at the bottom of the modules. Maybe someone with technical background could answer this.
To release the modules from the Controller i was thinking about a trigger release or maybe some sort of pinhole to push the modules out.
If needed i think there would be enough space for some extra Buttons on the Thumbstick module.
I hope the GIF works if not here are 3 more images.
Well i was not aiming for a flying pig but a concept that in a similar way was done before on a different controller so…
This is the Valve layout and if you get RSI from hitting those buttons you get RSI from moving your thumb on the Trackpad or Thumbstick from left to right because the distance from Trackpad/Thumbstick to the buttons is only marginal.
It could work, you need a spring in the controller, you would push the module and add a button/lever on the controller to lock the module. Or perhaps just a magnet if the module is not too heavy.
This seems perfectly reasonable if there is enough volume available to assemble it. You would also need some method of orienting the stick and pad, but this could easily be done with a notch each side of the cylinder.
Here’s a joystick module from the Arduino kits, perhaps you could get some idea of sizes from this, and how many pins are required for the output.
My statement was pretty brash there…sorry. What I meant was that there are other factors that could prevent it from taking place…(even if a slot mechanism is created to accomodate, and assuming everything fits nicely). eg. increased driver hassles and potential issues…
I personally think it would be easier just to find a way to implement them both even if it means a smaller stick…(so long as it is ergonomic, easier said than done)
In regards to the button, I guess I am more a fan of moving my right thumb outer left, or down instead of outer right.
I like the magnet idea question is would the magnet cause problems with the electronics like the trackpad… else the spring is also a godd idea.
[quote=“apachesquirrel, post:7, topic:4302, full:true”]
This seems perfectly reasonable if there is enough volume available to assemble it. You would also need some method of orienting the stick and pad, but this could easily be done with a notch each side of the cylinder.[/quote]
Was just looking at some of this Thumbstick boards and they come in different sizes and forms so i think there sure is one that would fit.
On the orientation problem yes i was thinking abut a notch but since this is only a quick edit to the original Valve Knuckle i was to lazy to model it.
Today i regret that i don’t have a 3d Printer else i would print me prototype… Note to self… adding 3D printer on wish list for christmas.
The joystick modul would need the 4 buttons on it for click able d pad function as the trackpad has it in a 4way clickable. As for space it might depend on how much space needed for haptics
I see a problem in ergonomics of such design. When you look at some of the best gamepads (i.e. xbox 360 gamepad), you may notice that the analog thumbsticks and even dpad are quite spaced from the others.
For the thumbstick it is because to move from elevated position on the stick to hit the keys (A, B, X, Y) you do not do only the translation in horizontal plane but also in vertical direction.
Take such a gameped, imagine a button right at the feet of the thumbstick and try to “hit it” in a comfortable way. You see?
For the trackpad (d-pad in this case) the reason is different. To control the pad the thumb has to move in much larger area than just the footprint of the pad. So to avoid unwanted clicks on other buttons, the area around is void of any.
Actually the right part of the xbox 360 gamepad gives you quite a lot of design clues about where you can (and where you cannot) place the buttons, relative to thumbstick. Do not think they are spread there randomly!
For connection type I would recommend a pogo pin interface (the style you usually have on 2-in-1’s). It’s one of the more durable ways to connect things as you move the stress away from the connector to a separate latch or magnet.
For the record, I still don’t like the concept of modular input devices, just giving some input if it happens
While I think that this idea of changeable modules over complicates things, if it were to go ahead in this fashion I would suggest a hexagon or octagon slot to help keep things lined up. It would also help separate the controller visually from the knuckles.
Just grabbed a gamepad that was laying around here and the Thumbstick is clickable isn’t that the same function as on the touchpad, (Thumbstick left + click = Touchpad left + click) what am i missing here? How is it done on the Windows MR Controllers do you have to click on the touchpad while using the Thumbstick?
I see what you mean but a Knuckle controller doesn’t left you with a lot of options if you want to have a thumpstick on it.
The only reasonable place i see for extra buttons would be below the thumbstick.
Well personaly i don’t care if it is modular or not but i somehow liked the idea because the Trackpad (Thumbstick) is one of the most abused parts while gaming and if it breaks you simply can pop it out and replace it instead of buying a whole new controller for a 100+Dollars.
So i thought why not play around with this idea a little bit.
A click on the thumbstick isn’t register differently based on direction, but might be doable, then you are right about that point. It would be uncomfortable though.
A touchpad can be used for both absolute and relative input, but that is a whole different story.
That is one of the problems with using the same design on the stick and touchpad controller, and one of the points against the modular design.
That is exactly my point, it is the most abused part, and decreasing the durability of it is not a smart way to go. Modular designs are always more prone to failure, you have point of failures in both sides of the connector, the latches to hold it in place etc. By having it as one whole design its way easier to design a rugged device.
Edit: I do like your renderings and thinking though
Yeah but i don’t think that we are going to see a completely different Design for Touchpad and Thumbstick Knuckle by Pimax. Whats going to happen is they will replace the Touchpad with a Thumbstick and call it a day. I hope i am wrong but thats how i see this will end.
So with a modular design lets say you are a Touchpad guy so you snap the Touchpad in place and it stays there all the time. But there is this certain game you from time to time want to play but it is way better played with a Thumbstick.
So 2 Options:
You bought 4 controllers (2 with Touch + 2 with Thumbsticks = 400+Dollar)
You bought 2 controllers + 2 extra modules ( let`s say 20$ each) makes it a ±240Dollar
That would roughly be a 160$ difference.
It is not like you are switching the modules a 100 times a day so i don’t see them breaking because of that so easily.
And if you really managed to break one of your Knuckles you would still have money saved compared to buying 4 full sets of controllers.
The trackpads have a 4 way direction dpad function. The steamcontroller has this in both track pads. Might also have center click.
The core of the trackpad is to give an analogue function like the thumbstick. The clickable function of the trackpad is to give you the 2 in 1 function. The thumbstick click on a regular controller is a seperate button ie L3 or R3 typically
