Hi,
I’m thinking I want to buy the 8KX after it is available.
Having also a 5k XR (Oled) mostly I’m playing Digital Combat Simulator…
What should I say the SDE is in DCS visible small but visible… In the far sight in DCS the Picture is not so good to look on enemies etc…
So then the 8KX has a native 4k resolution on an optimized RGB LCD Matrix.
How much better would the SDE ? is it worth to buy this HMD… the price is not very cheap…
Greets
This SweViver video might be interesting: VR Through The Lens (photos & video): Pimax 8KX, 8K+, 8K, 5K+, Valve Index, HP Reverb v1, HTC Vive - YouTube
It’s not comparing with the 5k XR though, but with the 5k+ at the low end. At 2:14 some flight sim gauges are compared.
We asked hundreds of people individually at CES if they could see any SDE on the 8KX. Only a few people said they could still perceive any.
Interestingly a higher percentage of people in the same test at CES could perceive SDE on the 8K+ because the scaler causes SDE to be somewhat more prominent even though the actual gaps are the same.
If you are coming from an XR the difference with the 8KX will be the most dramatic between any of our headsets as the sde pattern is the most perceivable on the XR.
I’ve read abbout Pimax would produce the first 100 Units P8KX this month does any rumors exist when the maas production starts… Or when i Preorder one … when can i expect the delivery …
I know this is maybe a bit to optimism… But I play DCS all the time with my Pimax … an the only bad things and the VR in DCS is the SDE .And the solution about can be the Pimax…
The 5kXR SDE will be between the og Vive and Vive Pro. With the 5k+ having similar to slightly better than Vive Pro.
The 8k+ and 8kX will still have some SDE depending on the user. However for majority it should be virtually Non Existent.
The cons will be mainly the blacks will not be as good on LCD vs Oled which has true blacks.
Now the plus on the Pimax headsets:
I assume the greater the pixel density (provided it is full RGB matrix screen displaying at native resolution) the more you will be able to discern details at a far distance. Looking at your usage and since you are already used to Pimax lenses, wide FOV and probably have base stations, it seems that you will have a very good time with the 8kX! The 8kX might be the commercial headset with the highest resolving picture capacity in 2020.
All is not perfect though… from what we currently know, it does not come without several compromises, depending on people, some more serious than others such as high price, 75Hz refresh rate, mediocre integrated audio, availability, colours & black levels (compared to an OLED 5k XR, a LCD Vive Cosmos or a LCD Valve Index) and slight distortions at the edges. Also I think that in order to fully enjoy your 8kX you may need to upgrade your PC.
Here are some interesting in-depth reviews of the 8kX (pre-production units seen at CES2020) :
https://community.openmr.ai/t/point-by-point-demo-of-not-final-pimax-vision-8kx-summary-and-upcoming-video/26690
https://community.openmr.ai/t/pimax-8k-x-the-mrtv-preview-written-version/26839
I just got my 8K+. If you try hard and focus on it you can make out the SDE, just like on a smartphone (Ihone 8 or better) and a better then FullHD Monitor it’s there but you need to stare it out of the scene - nothing that should bother anymore in games - just like nobody complains about SDE on a good phone or monitor display, even though it’s there
Well, the 8k+ have it more on some colors, just like on yellow it is very obvious…but not in the sky even if white/blue.
It is more obvious on RBG colors, since the does not turn on the 3 subpixels and leave some more space between, the white color is the one with the less SDE.
But on letters is where I see it the most.
For instance under StreamVRhome, the letters of the big menu on the wall with the most played games, there are Red, Green and Blue texts, when reading them SDE is “very” present to me.
It is small yes but I cannot say there are not, no way.
Of course when coming back to another headset SDE look big, 8k+ SDE is very good, but there is one, a small one, that is not disturbing and I could live with this for several years no problems.
the greater the pixel density (provided it is full RGB matrix screen displaying at native resolution) the more you will be able to discern details
Actually, not as much as would be expected. A dark aircraft on a bright sky will still be a dark spot on a lower resolution display. A dark pixel in a window will still be that. Yes, there is a difference, but the impact on text readability is much stronger.
75Hz
There are few applications for which this matters (ie. beat saber). The upscaler is for that.
slight distortions at the edges
Not as bad as the old 5k+.
Also I think that in order to fully enjoy your 8kX you may need to upgrade your PC.
Not so much. Less supersampling needed.
@Goose The only things in DCS noticeably pixelated or difficult to read fall into these distinct categories.
Everything else is readable. Especially the HUD, and steam gauges. The difference is something like 50-85%. Moving from the 5k+ to the 8kX is something like the difference between the Oculus CV1 and the 5k+.
There are a lot more details though. Like the amount of time it takes human eyes to adapt to take full advantage of this resolution with the infinite focus of VR lenses. The video I am working on now provides those details…
Thank you mirage335 for your precisions! Maybe I don’t know DCS enough so my answer was a bit off, but I think we both agree. I must underline that the compromises I mentionned could represent not so much of a downside depending on people, expectations and situations.
Maybe you actually meant to say : A dark aircraft on a bright sky will still be a dark spot on a higher resolution display (comparing 5k XR to 8kX)? Also, a smaller dot/spot will still be more visible with higher pixel density than on a screen with much lower pixel density where the pixels are not small enough to represent it, am I correct? Here the brightness and contrast capacity/algorithms of the screens might also play a role, right? because you talking about an extreme scenario with very high contrast but what about planes very far away but much less saturated due to clouds, anti-aliasing and/or blooming effects?
Personnally I also had in mind racing simulations/games scenario with vehicles at mid range where you would both be able to appreciate more the quality of the design and reflections on the cars, as well as quality and details in the scenery at a long range. The value is not purely based on aesthetics though ; maybe it is not as important in combat sims in the sky but I assumed better pixel density and resolving capacity would allow in a racing game to recognize shapes of cars letting you to identify your rivals among all the different cars and racing classes on track, or allowing to identify your way faster on a openworld-type track with lots of scenery elements displayed, or to rapidly identify reference braking points while focusing on the traffic. Surelly, LODs will have an impact on all that.
If people are going to play Pong in VR, I am sure pixel density won’t matter and the 8kX won’t be more resolving. I was speaking about games with lots of details and effects.
Cannot wait for your explanations on lenses and eyes looking to infinity!
Agreed the p4k was the same SDE was more seen on still static images more on certain cases. Though would need one to do a direct compare with the p4k as it used Rainbow-RGB which seemed to do a really good job a vs the rgb stripe on the 5k+ but understandable with the 5k+ screens only being qhd vs 4ktv res.
All this sounds very very good.
So when did thing Pice of Godlike Hardware would be aviable…
Any romor… In the newsletter Pimax says fir 100pcs it would made this month… and the normal mass pruduction…
So i realy want to order or preorder one… But when i can exept the delivery when i preorder today …:-))
I’m going to have to disagree with you there. When I first got the Index when it first came out I would have agreed with you. I had a 1080ti and i7 4790k, and even with that, not much other than beat saber would run at a stable 120hz. However, since then I’ve upgraded to an 8700k with 2080ti and now can run quite a few titles at 120 such as Half Life Alyx. I have the HP Reverb set up to use the Index controllers and even though the clarity is so good on that and I miss it when going back to the Index, the increased presence of the 120hz overrides that clarity overall in that game. It’s not an immediate thing when you first put on the headset. Initially, when I switch back to the Index the first thing I notice is the reduction in clarity and increased SDE. But after a few moments of actually moving around utilizing roomscale and seeing how the increase in smoothness increases the immersion and feeling of actually being in the world, I end up preferring the Index. I was hoping the scaler on the 8K X would approach the quality of the reverb still so I could get the best of both worlds, but Vrgamerdude said that the Reverb still looks much better than the 8K X in scaler mode. I’m still interested to try out my 8K X (if it ever comes) and compare, but I’m less confident it’s going to be the end all be all HMD.
But also Pimax 5K+ has 120 hZ ,
and it has foV
and it has this community
and it has Sweviver
and it has PimaxQuorra
…
Compering My index to My 5k+ in beat saber, My score`s are always better in the index. the index just seam more responsive.
Which settings are you using for the 5k+? 120 Hz or 144 Hz? PP? etc.
(That said: Index is probably optimal for BeatSaber - ppd and FoV don’t really matter, good sound, high frequency, low(er) resolution helps with reaching max fps even for slower GPUs.)
But I would have expected the 5k+ to perform similarly when set up accordingly(?)
Are you using Index Controllers? As some have reported tracking issues
Vive wand and Index controllers, the moment I went to the index HMD I felt a difference.
Hard to explain, it just felt better, a bit more response on sharp fast direction changes.
Just waving the controllers around did not seam any difference, But defiantly changing directions was faster.
No tracking problems.
V1 LH
HMD is 204
@mimaximax
Actually, I indeed meant exactly that a dark aircraft on a bright sky is still a dark spot on a lower resolution headset. In both cases, especially when supersampling is used, subpixel features will be visible. Yes, the aircraft will be visible at longer range on the higher resolution headset maybe say 25% for every 50% increase in linear resolution, but this is incomparable to the impact on eyestrain, readability, RGB artifacts, etc.
In racing simulations, I absolutely agree. Higher resolution drastically improves imersion. Not just in racing, but also formation flying, air to air refueling (in fact I am partial to details in aircraft more than cars). Just looking over at your own wings, and seeing the variations in the paint and control surfaces without jagged edges is phenomenal for the immersion of feeling like you are flying ‘the real thing.’ IIRC, I pointed that out rather often at CES and the roadshow.
LODs are not a problem. Only in rare cases do objects noticeably drop off in detail with distance significantly faster than imposed by resolution of the 8kX or even human vision. I consider these cases bugs. And I suspect these bugs exclusively occur with games that were developed with custom graphics engines.
@evertec
My take on the refresh rate issue is one of luxury vs necessity.
Resolution is a necessity. Being actually able to see something I am staring at has to happen first to make anything else worthwhile.
Refresh rate may improve immersion for some. This is nice, but 75Hz or so is enough for me not to notice if I don’t want to. For seated apps, instead of roomscale, even lower refresh rates are fine.
At the end of the day, you have to decide what matters most to you. Smooth experience, or seeing details and quick readability.
As for the resolution of the Reverb, I suspect it is intermediate between the 8kX and 8k+/upscaler. But I find the remarks by @vrgamerdude a bit confusing, and I would really like to actually try the Reverb.
I might consider asking to borrow a Reverb for this. But this is not the best time for such things…