@Hessfire If you filter out the “pluralis maiestaticus” of the OP from @Ben06 you could see that he made a point. If you do not agree with his observation (which is what it is) you are free to argue. It however does not serve the cause (nor yours nor his) just to attack his style.
There is no need to be lawyer or enforce the international law. The whole kickstarter is based on trust and the wording in the kickstarter policy is just trying to capture it. There are still regions in the world where the actual business is based on the trust - which means - in a layman form that you do not lie to your business partner and he does not lie to you.
While there is no explicit contract, there is this notion of trust. I believed (as a backer) that Pimax could achieve what they promised based on the feedback from the others and their statement and that was the reason I backed this project.
After 6 months I do no longer believe it and I do no longer trust them. What has changed over those 6 months, well, not much. Pimax just made a series of statement (updates) which, when you look at them altogether do not make really sense. And when some people challenged them, they ignored it or gave responses which really did not respond.
I understand that there are people who do not care about their statements, or who consider them perfectly alright and it is ok to voice this on the forum.
Personally, I think it is useless to challenge Pimax, but I understand that not everyone feels the same way.
Anyone who feels compelled to come here to tell the others how they do not understand kickstarter and how they are immature, please note that there are apparently many different ways to understand kickstarter and our point here is not to solve them.
Looking forward to getting my headset next week for being loyal. I will be one of the people getting the secret elite version that’s based off the perfect V1 prototype that had built in tesla gpus for each eye to hit 90hz, and lenses made from distortionless transparent graphene, with sennheiser headphones, and 10 controllers. This baby would have cost like 14 grand to make, but you suckers are covering the cost for us loyal elites.
The disloyal people here will get the commoner 80 hz M1 several months later.
E.g.: American injured by Austrian train suing in the USA. They took their case to the supreme court but lost. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-litigation-idUSKBN0TK50U20151201
I’m sure if someone was determined enough, they could find an ambulance chaser who’d take their case. Whether it would be successful, who knows.
I totally agree, what’s a spokesperson to reply?
The kickstarter campaign looks very aggressive to me the more I think about it in hindsight.
Just hope for the best, fortunately I bought a 4K at the same time otherwise I’d be much more upset
Ok, why some backers are such aggressive with other backers?
Facts are there: did you get your Pimax 8K @90Hz in JAN18 ? Do you even know when it will be there ? Don’t you like to have proper updates and explaination ?
I can easilly understand people that are saying this post won’t change anything, however, you can see that some of us don’t like to feel scammed and need explainations. It is not a matter of chinese, european or american culture, it is human nature.
If you don’t fell like this, it is fine for you. But please don’t act as if everything is going perfectly and don’t insult people that do think like you. I did not, this post was for Pimax team.
Thanks to keep this forum respectful and help us to get regular and honest information from Pimax.
You’re right however I believe your request is a little bit paradoxical. Why ask for more information from a source you don’t rate very highly? After all how much weight would you put on the answer you’ll receive.
For me the situation for backers is comparable to pre ordering a product without the right to cancellation and since we are not investors we have to accept whatever route Pimax will take.
If they want to be a great company and value current and future investors they’ll take care of the situation.
Interesting, first asian SJW company I ever heard of
Exactly NOTHING about this thread can be considered respectful or honest.
Did Pimax “lie” or “commit fraud” presenting the V2, V3, etc. at the trade shows - NO, the units set up for demonstration were presented as HAND BUILT PRE-PRODUCTION UNITS. Which means they were subject to change as the design evolved.
Did Pimax “lie” or “commit fraud” in putting forth the Kickstarter campaign? Again the answer is NO. The information provided in the campaign (including timetables) was as accurate as the information at hand. Further, as there have been delays (including the CES debacle) they HAVE posted revise timetables AS THEY WERE AVAILABLE AND BASED ON THE INFORMATION AT HAND.
Did Pimax “lie” or “commit fraud” about a 90Hz Refresh rate. Once again, the answer is NO. The Kickstarter stated a refresh between 75 and 90 Hx - 80Hz is well within that range - and they stated on 10 May that they are still trying to improve whilst retaining stability.
Did Pimax “lie” or “commit fraud” concerning BrainWarp? So far the answer is (surprise) NO. On 10 May Pimax posted an update that the Brainwarp software is currently feasible with current pre-production units. Further they have stated that they will be working with, testing, and tweaking the software with the M1 test units while they are in the field with the testers - which should be happening THIS MONTH.
The fact that Pimax even takes the time to update on these exceedingly toxic and hostile forums is a testament to THEIR patience. When you put your money up during the Kickstarter, you were backing the R&D of the product being presented. Sorry to tell you this, but that is GOING TO TAKE TIME, and it cannot (nor should it) be constrained by the childish demands and insults being hurled here.
What truths can we gelan from this thread? That the OP is upset and impatient. That op is willing to slander, defame, accuse, and threaten Pimax when he has no Evidence or Basis in Fact for doing so. I would point out that his own posts (including the title of this thread BTW) DO constitute slander and libel in some countries. It seems to be endemic of the current generation that they tend to confuse what they WANT to be entitled to with what they actually ARE entitled to.
.[quote=“aesopfabled, post:30, topic:6046, full:true”]
We’re we supposed to read minds and know 75/90 meant any figure in between those numbers. That’s bullshit times twenty, if math serves.
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If there was confusion, it was on your part for not asking clarification BEFORE putting your money on the table.
Failure to plan on your part does not constitute and emergency on theirs…
@Ben06 you do have some valid points of view here. However the v2 lenses were not perfect; while didn’t notice any god rays & looked overall remarkable. I did notice the shadow of fresnel lens’ ring toward the peripheral.
Being a proof of concept yes things would change. The v2 had to be able to shine over the v1. If they had presented the v1 very few if any would have invested.
While their communication isn’t going to win them any prizes as stated in RoadtoVR comments they are doing much better than alot of kickstarters & trufully alot of companies.
As for LG/Google/Apple & the rest have been forced out of the closet because Pimax has forced their hands. If pimax hadn’t brought this project forward; those companies would continue with bread crumb hardware releases.
@Hessfire while i understand your viewpoints; this is the problem with anyone speaking for many as it never represents the sum of the whole. We only need to look at electoral polical systems.
In the end its better to discuss “feelings” to vent concerns & to debate viewpoints constructively on both sides.
With @Sjef i don’t disagree with pimax being dodgy to pure ignoring questions asked. (I have received xunshu’s like without answer on more thsn 1 occassion)
BUT only if those involved “DON’T LOSE THEIR $H¡T” in the process.
The biggest problem I see is as far as I know none of us has worked in China so we don’t understand where business practises differ.
Now am I as concerned like the op is? No i am not. Pimax will make & release the headsets i suspect at the latest mid to end of q3(to be clear guess) but hopefully sooner.
It seems they are listenimg & trying to improve their communication methodes. For example weekly updates. Xunshu closed & pinned her topic for ease of reading like the official update thread & makes moderating thst topic easy. That being said i will start 2 new threads soon.
Will be discussion / forming questions (maybe a list) for xunshu.
thread will be locked & questions moved there. Reason community makes it crazy to moderate a thread like this. I was exhausted after over 3 days trying to keep xunshu’s thread clean.
It bugs me that I do not know what to expect from Pimax, and I do not have the confidence I had when I backed them. I do blame Pimax communication tactics for this. BUT fraud is a hard word.
You may suspect this but it does not mean they have gotten to this point intentionally. Life is hard, business is harder. I do believe they could be failing at the goals they put out in front of themselves. They may have sugar coated it all to get the ball rolling. And that sucks , but I am not ready to call fraud just yet.
If you have not sold your pledge place in line, that may mean you are angry but still hopeful. If you are hopeful then you do not KNOW they are committing fraud against backers. If you are not sure. Perhaps we can keep those words out of the conversation … just my two cents.
The thing that makes me laugh is the split personality of the forum. anytime pimax shows something they say no no no unacceptable change change change(which is great when it is necessary which i think it has been) , but then making changes results in delays and the forum freaks the fuck out.
It’s like the person in a restaurant who complains that their steak is undercooked (rightfully) but is then outraged that additional time must elapse for the steak to reach well done.
And don’t get me started on the controller threads.
The product is measurably better for the delays it has undergone, to correct issues that THIS forum and people on roadshow/testers had pointed out and demanded changed.
If they had shipped an M1 based on the v1, 2 or 3 this place would have had a god damn meltdown over the lens distortion etc.
People need to take stock of the situation here.
We have a really really nice headset coming at a fraction of what someone like htc would charge for it, the closest current equivalent of which is an enterprise level headset in star VR.
We have really really nice controllers with an option on the interface we want per customer. I didn’t back with controllers but based on what i have seen picking 2 up will be a no brainer.
Ranting on the forum wont make it come sooner.
Engaging in conspiracy theories wont make it come sooner.
Disagree with everything OP said except that I’m curious if the V2 was too expensive to mass produce and they knew all along they wouldn’t be able to ship a product that good.
That would truly bother me because it is false advertising.
That’s like subways advertised footlong sandwiches are all 8 inches in real life because they knew footlong sandwiches would be too expensive.
@Heliosurge,
Thanks, for your answer. You have very valid points and try to understand all differents opinions.
I hope you are right on your analysis and that we will have updates very soon.
@GameMaker,
Yes you are right “Fraud” may be too hard. This is why I am never saying it is the case, I am enouncing facts that may lead to this conclusion. You can more see my post as a desesperate attempt to get answers. Too many questions are intentionally not answered by Pimax and you can see many of us start to loose faith.
However, putting appart @Hessfire who is fully satisfy (I am very glad for him by the way), you cannot deny that there is a discrepency between what was promised and the current situation and a deep lack of information. Yes it is a Kickstarter, but it does not prevent Pimax to provide answers to us.
@destraudo, I hope you are wrong, but yes, maybe this post doesn’t help. At least, I tried.
But “conspiracy theories” has a totally different meaning. It is facts here that V2 was better than V5. Obviously, Pimax explanation where confused and not clear on why it was the case.
News?
No , same old bullshit from bullshitters like you that open and feed 1 more of the same bullshit talk thread for the usual bullshiters to tallk bullshit
