I get the comments about size that are being made, but my point of reference is the experience that I have with my 8KX. It is even bigger and heavier than the Crystal apparently, with no opportunity for weight balance because it doesn’t have the battery component. I’ve used it for over 2 years now and play all kinds of games with it. Less weight is always better of course but the 8KX has never felt too heavy for me. What I’m looking for is a better visual experience in my next headset. It would be great to get something smaller and lighter, but if that comes at the expense of visual quality then I don’t want it.
3 Likes
If I switch between the Reverb G2 and 8KX, I notice a distinct difference of the G2 feeling way more snug on my face when I shake my head (even when the 8KX is tightened to my face that it doesn‘t wobble, which has been challenging in itself).
But it‘s not the only one, the Quest 2 is front heavy and has lots of room for improvement too, and I am using the BoboVR battery strap.
When comparing the 8KX and Crystal, don‘t forget the added weight of the XR2 SoC etc…
3 Likes
The only thing that really needs to be all the way out in the front, is of course the display panels, and their shielding. -As long as you can have long enough cables between them and their driver circuitry, you should be perfectly able to put everything else in a little pill box hat on top of your head, right above its centre of gravity… :9
That does not help with the occupied volume, of course, but that is not as great a problem as the mass and leverage, I think… or as great a problem as having to have the thing make contact with your face, for that matter; Or the need to keep the sweet spot steady in place in front of one’s eyes, or the issue of a big lump of fleshy biological matter steaming up the enclosed space… 
The main (…but not only) drawback of pancake lenses seems to be the light loss… I don’t know what brightness all devices output, but still sorely miss that of the original Vive, several devices later. Pump up the light emitter energy to compensate, and that is likely to produce extra heat, which needs to be dissipated. Fewer extra watts may be needed, if one has a display type that does not operate on light-sapping principles such as polarisation and/or filters…
One day, we’ll just need a cost-evolved single strip of lightfield-imaging display material curving across, right in front of our eyes, without any other optics in between… :9
1 Like
The problem with her comparison is this. She’s comparing the Vive XR Elite which is able to play stand-alone games. We have yet to see one video of the Crystal in stand-alone mode. We haven’t even seen the Wifi6e working yet.
To do a fare comparison we have to wait until Crystal is fully functional. We have to see what the resolution and FOV are in stand-alone mode.
The XR Elite can fold up and fit into a small bag while the Crystal is a juggernaught in comparison so we’re engaging two difference kind of customers. No doubt Vive Focus 4 will be a better comparison.
2 Likes
I can understand your point but for me personally I have very little interest in standalone so a standalone comparison is of no relevance to me. Comparing the headsets on PCVR capabilties (which I think she has done), which is what I would use them for, the Crystal beats the Vive XR Elite.
Especially in this price range, £1k+, I see no good reason to buy a hmd with such low resolution and low PPD in 2023. As mentioned previously the size/bulk doesn’t bother me, I use an 8KX most days with no issues around its size. Give me display quality over form factor anyday.
5 Likes
I made Simple app to test actual FOV using Unreal engine like this
I took a picure from Quest2 to see FOV
(It seems I need to practice to take pictures…)
When my crystal comes, I’ll share pictures.
4 Likes
I think that depends on what your goal is. If the goal is playing PC VR then her comparison is very valid. The Crystal has a better picture, no comparison there. If your goal is stand-alone VR then I think the Crystal will lose against the Elite even after it’s standalone abilities are ready because it will no longer have the image advantage and will lose out on the comfort comparison. Even if your goal is wireless PCVR then I think the Crystal will lose because of the same reason. To me the Crystal only wins against the Elite if your goal is best image possible.
4 Likes
But you have the bulk at the front and useless battery at the back.
The Crystal can be expected to have clearer visuals even in standalone mode when rendering at the same resolution as other standalone VR headsets.
Rendering resolution is only one factor in clarity. The higher density panels, improved lenses, higher contrast range, etc are going to improve clarity at all rendering resolutions.
I expect that its visual advantage will be blunted when comparing clarity in standalone, but it will still be there.
1 Like
For those interested only in the PCVR capabilities of the Crystal it may make sense to wait a little - I almost expect Pimax to announce a spin-off version w/o XR2 SoC. The big question though is if wireless would be abandoned too because it would allow to abandon the battery and drive the cost down. And it might be significantly lighter too.
I am a bit torn between what is potentially more interesting: getting a substantially more affordable Crystal version or pay more to get wireless, something I have been looking forward too because my room frankly looks quite messy with these cables and I don‘t fancy having to tidy it up after every session.
As a side effect one can expect such a stripped Crystal to be more mature due to the experience Pimax is collecting with its guinea pigs first waves of customers of the „launched & final“ Crystal.
1 Like
@atmos, I agree. That is, if standalone is still not working by the time the first actual customers receive their Crystals. I hope that’s not the case. Imho, if it’s claimed as a basic part of the headset, it HAS to be working when they finally ship it. Eye tracking and stand alone have to work. The former is in the hands of Tobii, but the latter is Pimax’s problem alone as I understand it, at least. The add on modules can take longer to get working well, but the onboard functions must work as advertised. I’m quite hopeful Pimax will get it all done. However, delivering a headset that doesn’t fire on all advertised cylinders, even if it’s just a software/firmware download away, would be a really bad idea. The fact that I (or any customers) may not do standalone gaming is beside the point.
2 Likes
STANDALONE vs TETHERED
If there’s an argument that many people won’t want the Stand-Alone. (Which I’m seeing quite a bite of)
Then maybe they should make two models for the Crystal.
The current one and another one that doesn’t have any stand-alone tech, and make it better weighted (if at all possible).
FOV (For both Stand-Alone & Tethered)
But the 2nd hypothetical model could be trumped by a lack of a sufficient FoV, to which we don’t clearly have the answers yet.
If FoV is noticeably smaller, it may not matter too much the picture quality depending on the use-case.
You’ll have people having to choose between a better quality picture at a cost of FoV(potentially too big a gap for some) just to be able to spend $1.5k for it.
To me, as I’ve experienced the HTC Vive, Index and Crystal. Picture quality is superior on the Crystal, but to spend that amount of money for it if FoV is fubared? , Hard pill to swallow.
WIFI (For Stand-Alone)
Let’s also consider that PIMAX is also expecting world-wide adoption of WiFi6E.
Perhaps a non-issue. Though as it currently stands, not every region in the world has approved WiFi6E
They haven’t chosen (at least on their specs that I see) to also support the more widely adopted WiFI6. Which is odd, as, for example, the HTC Vive XR Elite will do both 6 + 6E
In fact there is currently no mention of a spec for WIFI compatibility on the SPECS page for the Crystal.
1 Like
You cannot just “remove the XR2” from the Crystal and keep all else the same. The XR2 does a handful of things beyond just the standalone aspect. People keep making that mistaken assumption it’d be a huge cost savings or a drag and drop replacement, but it’s not.
4 Likes
Pimax said back in October, in an official announcement, that standalone won’t be present at launch. There’s no doubt about it, it won’t be present at launch. Personally it makes no difference, I am getting the crystal as a PCVR headset and standalone will be a nice bonus at some stage if it comes. That’s just me personally though and I don’t expect anyone else to be okay with it or such.
2 Likes
Index is £460. What if they threw in some high res panels for a £700 V2? Is scary to think how precarious Pimaxes position is and their only strength is others indifference.
I believe PIMAX is lucky to have customers like yourself.
I do not yet believe that PIMAX as a Stand-alone only, warrants the price tag.
This starts to be more true if FoV isn’t as advertised at minimum.
1 Like
No one, not even Pimax, would think it’s worth the price tag as a standalone only headset. Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean?
Personally it makes no difference, I am getting the crystal as a PCVR headset and standalone will be a nice bonus at some stage if it comes.
My point is, that they’re lucky to have some people pay the price of the headset, even if all the features aren’t working yet. You personally don’t care about Stand-Alone, even though it’s included in the price of the headset.
While I agree that the Crystal’s display is really great, other things matter for me, like FoV, and getting firm specs with other features working as well.
Personally for me, I can’t justify spending that money until I have more assurances.
3 Likes
Ah yeah, I understand.
The way I see it, what is already there is better than the significantly more expensive aero. So the value is already there for me.
3 Likes
Another thing to remember is that performance will be lower on WiFi. So the hardcore simmers won’t use it much. @SmallBaguette Could you direct me to that official announcement?
I’m getting g a bit befuddled trying to sort through what data are current and what are not.
Getting old I guess.
1 Like