You mean 12k in Dec 2022 not 2023.
It’s strange the original 12k was announced in October 2021 nearly 15 months ago and we’ve still never seen it. Even 12 months after CES 2022 when Covid got blamed for the 12ks no show. Why no show at CES2023? Reason the 12k got shelved.
Yes it’s really bad PR how they have not even mentioned the 12k AT ALL.
Beware: the following is a mere speculation.
It appears pretty straight-forward to conclude that they ran into a number of issues of which many probably are related to the even wider FoV than the Vision series offers, and at the same time had probably already contemplated that they’d make a spin-off for regular FoV akin the Artisan headset, which we now know as the Crystal. The idea surely was to adopt as much from the 12K as possible.
Now the issues and resulting delay on the 12K - perhaps knowing that some of the solutions are out of their hands and with suppliers like Tobii, who may have told them that this will take a while before they can supply any fitting components, if at all - will have made them reverse the order of the two products, hence why we see the shift to the Crystal. I interpret Sweviver’s statement of a couple of weeks ago to mean that when the Crystal is done it means that roughly 70% of the components of the 12K are ready too, as they would be re-used without (substantial) changes.
This is the same principle they already applied for the Vision series and had in mind for the Reality series from starters. Hence the bulky size of the Crystal - wouldn’t be needed for the Crystal at all, but the 12K necessitates it and in order to boost synergies size-wise you’ll get a Monster Truck of a headset… (that actually is one of the major gripes I have: it’s 2023, pancake lenses everywhere, and we are asked to pay $1,5k - 2,5k for a shoe-box sized, heavy headset like it’s 2016 again…)
Back to the current state of development: the issue seems to be, that the remaining 30% contain some tough bones to chew on for the Pimax team as they would appear to be the reason for the reversal of the product priorities. The inevitable question is of course how long will it take them to get these resolved satisfactorily, if they don’t even seem to be willing to publicly feature the headset any longer?
You misread my intention man. I’m not dishing out any money until I can actually buy the thing when bugs are worked out and it will be in my hands in a week.
My point was people should ground their expectations off of what they’ve shown, not what they’ve promised or an optimistic time table. They’ve shown us a lot, it’s just time that’s in question.
I don’t buy pre-orders ever, and I don’t listen to company estimates. Product development like this is a lot like stocks. Until that $$$ is in your bank account and no longer in the Market, you may as well be gambling.
I look at what has been shown working on camera.
@PimaxUSA showed the 12K on a live stream way back a while ago with its different lenses, Etc in prototype form.
The crystal has the same housing as the 12K. They’ve showed Crystal with working full array local dimming. They managed to handle the exchangeable lens design . That means that whatever the covid situation is, I know they are working on it.
The 12K is different by degree, not kind. When the core mechanics of the crystal have been demonstrated, we know that other panels and the same software will be ready for the 12K. It’s just a question of time.
@hammerhead_gal just posted pictures of "some"crystal components ready to be assembled, probably for testers units, that means they are working on it.
I know to ignore it when they give an optimistic date. Anyone who’s been on the forum for any length of time should know to ignore those estimates until you actually see something.
I know however, in spite of dates that are too optimistic, pimax will deliver a working product because they have done it successfully several times.
That knowledge doesn’t mean I’m going to just give them $1,600 right out the gate, or even pay the small pre-order amount they collected.
You should never buy pre-orders even from reputable brands that have been around for a very long time. The era of online shopping has made this even more clear as Sound Advice. Only give people money when you’re sure of what you’re getting.
I hear people freaking out about pimax’s estimates, but not paying attention to what we’ve actually been shown.
Lighthouse tracking module working, exchangeable lenses working, core inside our tracking working, display algorithm for local dimming working.
People are upset about Wireless not being shown, but people are being unrealistic in expectations for wireless.
I understand the value of no tether, but I know for a fact digital compression over Wi-Fi will never be as good as sending the signal through DisplayPort.
If anyone is worried about standalone on this device you’re buying it for the wrong reason. That is a feature by definition that will take time.
They have showed us a lot of the core working aspects of the product, and throngs of people are telling them to work faster, not to do testing groups, to abandon exchangeable lenses, just work on it internally, all the while saying release it when it’s ready, meanwhile they paid pre-orders.
That’s a jumble of conflicting contradictory information, because people simultaneously want it now, want it faster, but want it fully done right. That means time guys. It will take time.
I understand people being upset when they have money in the game, but it’s up to a customer not to buy until a product is ready.
Even reputable companies like meta are increasing their prices, showing prototypes that won’t necessarily become products for years, just to generate the hype Etc because covid put us in an unprecedented situation that have made I guess only a few people cautious with their wallet.
If you’re wondering why there’s delays in the era of covid, you been living under a rock.
Everyone has been acting like this virus isn’t out there anymore still evolving, still killing, and everything should just be able to go back to normal, when the entire global supply chain has been affected not just by covid but by the Ukraine war. Add to that companies seizing on that to raise prices more than is strictly necessary.
Anything having to do with computer manufacturing, or computer like components has been adversely affected in an insane way across Industries.
In my country right now eggs are going for seven bucks for a dozen instead of the usual three because of bird flu requiring culling of millions of animals, Plus covid.
Various people are blaming political blah blah every which way, because they need to feel in control instead of truly considering the impact of a once in a century event. Instead of considering the impact of less actual raw materials to go around. More expensive gas, more expensive shipping, how expensive it is to buy a vehicle Etc.
If you consider what pimax has actually showed us that is in working order, that has been demonstrated to us, the stuff that we haven’t seen comes across as the fluff part of the product.
The Wishful Thinking part of the product. Was it painfully stupid for pimax to promise all that stuff in a marketing hype video way before it was ready? 100%. Does that mean any human being living in the world today should be surprised that stuff isn’t ready? Absolutely not. The one thing you should be 100% prepared for is delays.
Oupsss error lol
It’s true it’s december 2022 for thé Pimax 12k .
Aplushhss 
From my xp and learning about pimax’s structure. The Crystal in part was already being explored. That being said pimax since there very first p1:series(yes plural) have used a shared shell/casing. Designing and making new molds is very expensive.
The 8kX itself was the intended 8k model pimax wanted to release; however it was discovered that at a time prior to launching the KS that a combination of factors regarding tech available that native 4k/eye was not doable. This resulted in the compromised upscaled 8k. Due to community pressure pimax committed to make a limited number(400 units) of prototype 8kX with a ? on when it might release. The 5k itself was a suggestion by the community member @Davobkk whom was apart of a focus group Xunshu organized within the original pimax forum.
Pancake lenses as pimax explained do have issues with light transmission if I have the term correctly. @mmorselli created a topic to get more clarity on the stated 15% on this statement.
I found an article that verified pimax’s statement and actually explained the “15%” statement was generous and maybe lower efficiency. It is a great read as it gives a detailed explanation of pancake lenses design. To which I thanked Mmorselli as I would not have read that very “illuminating” article.
Read his topic here
With the ET from Tobii with the 12k they are collectively working out how to mount the sensors as the lense design is much more complicated. Iirc I read that somewhere in r/pimax; disclosure this was not a statement by a pimax employee but someone that may have close contact with a team member.
For me, if they’re going to advertise stand-alone as a feature of the headset and even design the headset around support for it. i.e. WiFi6 + Hot-swappable battery etc etc.
THEN. I expect that to be a working functionality at the time of sale.
Yes, I know and never expect that quality to be good as tethered. However stand-alone is another use-case that I’m interested in and buying the headset for.
So, while they may have a solid tethered headset ready to go out the gate, and one certainly could use it JUST FOR THAT without any stand-alone functionality, I personally do not think it will help them to try to sell an incomplete headset based on its intended functionality. A functionality that they’ve been advertising.
Perhaps we’re saying the same thing.
My perception is that people are viewing the same set of facts from different perspectives and desired outcomes.
One group sees the existing feature set as valuable enough on its own to be worth the price of admission.
Then there is the group that sees value in the full feature set, but feels the current unfinished state is either overpriced or too risky to invest in.
Beyond that you have the spectrum of individuals who think the Crystal is broken, bad, or will never even come out at all. 
Anyways, I think both of the first two perspectives have truth to them, and it comes down to each individual’s personal wants and financial situation.
Sure, and anyone can spend their money however they like.
Though, just by buying an incomplete product doesn’t automatically equate to some 100% guarantee that the product will have all features working as originally intended and as advertised within some short future amount of time, if at all.
Warning… Speculation and Run-on Sentence Below 
I’ll surmise that for those hard-core enthusiasts and those that have a lot more disposable income to throw around, that putting down the money for an incomplete product that only works in the ways that are the most important to them is more inconsequential as compared to the majority of consumers out there.
I’ll also surmise that a lot of the general consumer base won’t care to understand any justification that may be posited by biased-leaning supporters of the product when in reviews it’s shown that the product is ‘incomplete’.
I am a believer that reputation and trust still matter in the world of business. To that end, it is best for a company not only to provide a quality product (of course) but to also work towards maintaining that image.
In my opinion, releasing and taking the full amount of money from consumers for an incomplete product goes against good business practice and erodes positive reputation and trust. In a competitive landscape, such qualities can make or break sales of the product.
i.e. Why buy Product A (with similar features and cost compared to Product B) from a company that has a history of low reputation and trust when one can get Product B from a company that has a higher track record of those qualities?
I personally do not think that PIMAX will be doing itself any favors if it sells an incomplete product.
I hope this won’t happen.
I think that could be your best ever post.
As soon as Crystal is released in any sort of numbers you can bet videos will be made on whatever state Crystal is in. Those videos will be there for years, so when a new buyer comes to the VR market and searches for a video on Crystal they will see a unfinished Crystal and an unsatisfied reviewer. That could be enough for them to dismiss Pimax altogether. First impressions count.
But from Pimaxes point of view Crystal is a finished product as far as PCVR goes and there’s nothing to gain from waiting until stand-alone is finished.
On one side the risk is to release an unfinished product and generate negative reviews. On the other side Pimax could delay but for how long? Until Valve release Index 2? Until Meta release a higher res Quest3? Until Varjo announced a Aero 2?
I bet Pimax have had this meeting. I think Pimax are at the point of no return with Crystal and they now have nothing to lose.
Personally I think Crystal is 12 months too late. If it had of been here January last year then six months of ironing the creases would of brought it to maturity before Pico4 arrived. Pico 4 is a stop gap to the next big think either the 12k or Index 2.
Crystal never convinced me to preorder and even now I’m asking myself the question, how much longer will it take before Crystal gets on par with my Pico4? Can I survive with a 4 year old Index that’s SS to 4k per eye and works flawlessly?
It’s a tough call and maybe if Pimax sent me a Tester unit I might grow to love the Crystal. But Pimax have created this artificial expectation that the 12k is so close it’s pointless spending on the Crystal now, if the 12k is only just around the corner. But is it? Does anyone in Pimax even know?
I suppose what prompted me to say this was what I’ve read on the forums as of late as well as my own interaction with some VR users with existing HMDs.
Only 1 out of the 4 people I spoke with had a high degree of interest towards the Crystal.
The other 3 stated the incompleteness of the product as well as the poor reputation regarding the software side as reasons why they’re not all that interested.
4 people is surely not enough to represent a very accurate pulse on the situation.
However, there’s ‘some’ indication there regarding where PIMAX needs to focus, IMO.
It’s more valuable to have seasoned veterans and existing users of VR comment on the PIMAX Crystal vs. potential users with minimal experience. Simply because the WOW Factor would likely be difficult to resist for the latter and not allow their initial impressions to be jaded.
While we blabber on about topics like this 
, I’m confident that we all want PIMAX to succeed and bring the best quality HMD to market!
Thus a completely functional HMD with high compatibility and solid software experience is desired.
IMO
Oh. and ‘First To Market’ doesn’t automatically mean success. It’s what is brought to the market that counts.
Yes. There’s timing, but if a product is brought quickly to market, yet is incomplete and or has issues, then it doesn’t matter how good that product’s ‘potential’ is compared to a competing product that comes to market a little bit later. Ultimately Ebay will be flooded with the inferior product and people will move to the better product and carry along with them their negative experiences regarding the first product.
I don’t think any company wants that type of baggage.
Elon Musk had been promising fully autonomous driving for a few years now, but do Tesla cars can really do FSD ? Well, I recommend not to let go of the wheel when you are driving a Tesla.
But that broken promise never stopped people from buying Tesla cars. The customers enjoy their driving for all other ACCOMPLISHED features.
When a company promise you a product with feature A + B, sometimes they can only do A, but bad at B. Well, now you should really ask yourself, what do you think about feature A ? Is it worth the buy ?
As we all know, Pimax already accomplished the feature A with flying colors, literately. They can offer you a high end headset that can achieve the best color and resolution on the market with a fair price. Other products, like Varjo Aero, which only has feature A, can barely compete.
The problem is the feature B, the wireless and untether mode, which might not work properly for another few months.
So now it all comes back to the Tesla analogy. People won’t stop buying Tesla because the FSD is not done. And people won’t stop buying Crystal because the wireless mode is not finished.
Well, maybe some will. It’s your loss. All I need now is feature A. I want to watch Avatar 2 in full 2880x2880 qled glory. Why would I want to watch the movie with wireless, which is prone to interference and interruption?
And I think feature A worth the money they are charging. This feature is already the best in the industry.
Feature B is nice, but I won’t really count on it.
All the simmer out there, ask yourself, “Will you do the sim with tethering or not ?” I think 9 out of 10 will do the sim with tethering, because they already have all the rigs positioned an connected. No one wants to change the battery in the middle of the flight.
I get your point.
Though, if I pay full price for a product, I expect all features to be delivered as advertised, because it’s included in the price.
Now, your point about Tesla is a nice one. However, fully self-autonomous driving was nowhere near what it is and can still be back when the hype came out about it. Yet the car is still a car and there’s a lot more utility to it to make it compelling instead of just missing the fully self-autonomous driving. Something which Tesla doesn’t have a high level of control over.
I think other HMDs like the PICO 4 have already proven the stand-alone mode well enough.
Sure, it doesn’t have some of the strengths that the PIMAX Crystal has, that’s to be sure.
Yet, included in the price and a rather notable feature that’s already proven on the market already is the stand-alone mode which PIMAX is advertising.
Personally, I wouldn’t put my cash into anything where one of the notable features was missing in action without any clear and reliable path to its implementation with a decent degree of maturity.
As I said, people certainly can spend their money however they want to.
I personally feel that throwing money at products without the promised feature-set delivered first is simply sending the wrong message to these companies and bolsters them to more and more adjust the norms where people will put out money even if the product is half complete, because, that’s what everyone else does…
I am not so concered with Feature A, or Feature B, as I am with the base line the whole written-down alphabet rests on…
It appears that upon further questioning, a lot of people coming out of the test booth describe something “feeling off” about their view in the HMD, which rings a whole glockenspiel worth of bells in my ears.
-This it why I went from a p5k to an Index without looking back, even though it was no more than a side-grade resolution-wise, and a severe downgrade when it comes to FOV.
Valve got the basics right – the optics worked, and the projection was life-like; I got a proper, and to-scale sense of room, and clarity in the virtual room volume – something I never could with the p5k.
It is also why my occasional trying my very best to give the p8kX another chance, for a few consecutive days, invariably results in physical discomfort, and a sense of relief returning to the much worse resolution and FOV of the Index.
“Anyone” can brute-force a higher resolution display panel into a device, but setting it up properly takes engineering. Pimax have had many technical “firsts” - way ahead of the field on the calendar, but unfortunately more often than not totally cancelled out by imperfect execution.
…as for shuffling of release dates and new product reveals, (EDIT: …and preordering), and so on… Make mine an Osborne 2. 
HI
very good analysis except on 2 things!
The crystal is not heavy and its width is shorter than a shoe box that you take as a reference!
I had it on my head at the roadshow in Paris and I never had a headache, forehead, nose during the 5 hours I was at the roadshow.
It is quite different from my old pimax 5k+ and less big on the outside.!!!
Aplushhsss
Even though the Crystal is about to be shipped without wireless pcvr connection, standalone and eyetracking working there’s still a solid case for it being a good vr headset. Its main rival, the Aero, only has the advantage of eyetracking (and knowing Tobii are involved I think this will work on Crystal eventually). Even in the state the Crystal is in as of today it has bigger fov, higher PPD with the 42 PPD lenses, inside out tracking, bundled controllers, local dimming, qled as well as possibly other things extra when compared to the several $100’s more expensive Aero. I rate Varjo as a company but I know where my money would be going to and it’s not them.
tl;dr even with some missing features the Crystal is still good.
They have the same resolution. So if the FoV is higher on the Crystal, then the (average) PPD will be higher on the Varjo and vice versa. You can’t have both. It’s possible that the Crystal does have a higher PPD in the center but then the sides will be substantially blurrier, so you’d see a clear sweet spot. So I don’t see this as an advantage of the Crystal. The FoV itself of couse IS an advantage.
So if the Crystal has a substantially better FoV, then the Aero will have a substantially better average PPD.
Also disagreed. The varjo has the optics right. Apart from the distortion of course, but they pretty much fixed that to a degree that it’s on par with the 8kX and most seem to not even see it. But Varjo showed that they got the basis right, the optics just work, everything looks good, no ‘Pimax weirdness’, eyes are 100% relaxed, no eye strain whatsoever. This is my biggest issue with Pimax, just like @jojon said above, anyone can throw a higher resolution panel in a headset, that’s not difficult. The difficult part is making a realistic, believable 3D world, with optics that just feel natural. So far Pimax has not shown that they’re even able to do that. So I’m still very skeptical. If they can’t get that right, I’d take the Aero over the Crystal any day.
FYI - Crystal is not HDR.
Says that on the product page. Sounds more like it post processes to emulate HDR than actually being HDR. Funnily enough I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone ask about that marketing point, nor have I heard Pimax ever talk about it.
But yeah, I think it’s fair to say the headset is not HDR. Otherwise they would have mentioned what standard it met.
Ageed. The Crystal is not HDR- as I understand the term. Which consumer HMD do you know of that has High dynamic range? It would have to have an OLED display wouldn’t it? I mean to get to zero nits brightness on a pixel? And working at 4k? I can’t find any that seem to match the requirements for HDR designation. That, along with human eye FOV, resolution and pixel density is sort of the holy grail of VR. Someday we’ll get there. Hopefully in smaller headsets at more buyer friendly price points.