Pimax 8K May 17th update discussion

[dogbite]

@jimh54

Do you really think 10 HZ will even be noticeable?

For me personally, probably not. I don’t rule out the possibility others may be sensitive though. They have expressed concern of this here and comparing both under otherwise identical conditions would offer much value to the question “is 80 hz good enough?”

[Lillo]

@jimh54

Do you really think 10 HZ will even be noticeable?

To most people, hardly…the problem could come more from uneven refresh numbers that use black screen insertions and anything that generates an imperceptible strobe, that tend to push the human brain to unhealthy brain waves.

But apart from that, I suspect that the limited FOV of any current VR headset is a big factor of nausea induction, too…

[Sjef]

@Lillo

To most people, hardly…the problem could come more from uneven refresh numbers that use black screen insertions and anything that generates an imperceptible strobe, that tend to push the human brain to unhealthy brain waves.

But apart from that, I suspect that the limited FOV of any current VR headset is a big factor of nausea induction, too…

I don’t know where you get all this (black screen insertions???). But both Valve and Oculus determined after research that 90 hz induced less motion sickness than lower frequencies and that’s why they’re now offering 90 hz. In fact, if you google, then people who switched from DK2 (75 hz) to CV1 (90 hz) almost all report they felt less VR sickness. Of course the increased resolution also might be a factor here.

I myself feel a lot less motion sickness on the Vive Pro (90hz) than on the Deepoon E3 (80 hz), but again, I can’t rule out that other factors are also involved here like the higher resolution and IPD adjustment (which I know for a fact plays a very important role)

Hopefully the reports from the testers will shed some light on this, I’d love to hear how someone who is susceptible compares the Vive Pro at 90 hz the Pimax 8k at 80 hz.

[greymane]

@Ralf

My problem is that I have no base station and when the Pimax 8K comes I can not do anything with it … unfortunately have only the oculus rift …

The headset does have gyros, so you should be able to use it with seated experiences until the base stations arrive. I am in the same situation but my primary game is Elite at this point so I am not overly worried. I also have a Rift. My concern about the gyros though is drift (I also have a Pimax 4k that I have given up playing due to the drift being so bad ).

[dustyearlobe]

one concern i have about 80hz is that it if we are trying to get 90 hz through steam what percent of frames will be missing will it be 1 in every 9 or 10 stacked back to back in 90 as i think the later will cause stutter ,cant wait to hear from the testers

[Sjef]

@dustyearlobe

one concern i have about 80hz is that it if we are trying to get 90 hz through steam what percent of frames will be missing will it be 1 in every 9 or 10 stacked back to back in 90 as i think the later will cause stutter ,cant wait to hear from the testers

That’s an interesting question. AFAIK (I could be wrong here) SteamVR in this case would either render at 75 hz, and interpolate to 80 hz, or render at 90 hz and then would just dump 10 frames. I do indeed wonder if this causes any stutter.

EDIT Hmm thinking about it, it MIGHT not be a problem at all. Pimax is using their own custom renderer (they’re not using the SteamVR renderer), so as long as SteamVR tells the game to render at 80 hz and SteamVR then passes those 80 fps at 80 hz to the Pimax renderer, it would work without extra stutter. But I don’t know if that’s possible, maybe it is.

[Lillo]

@Heliosurge

Marco,

You misunderstand the benefits of a good open discussion forum.

I haven’t really observed much complaining at all since the update. Only mild concerns with some folks not thinking on that all products experience revisions during their product life.

Xbox 360 for example year 1 first version had a custom designed graphics gpu that was replaced in later revisions if mem serves with Nvidia gpu to correct overheating issues some gamers exoerienced. Then down the line the “xb360 slim” was a big overhaul to the earlier models.

I’m still puzzled about how do you go out of it continuously with examples and answers that have practically nothing to do with the speech you are replying to…and instead seem to be a challenge of who know more about past things … it looks like just to hear Max talking like a data drone, meybe he’s really him?

[Lillo]

@Sjef

That’s an interesting question. AFAIK (I could be wrong here) SteamVR in this case would either render at 75 hz, and interpolate to 80 hz, or render at 90 hz and then would just dump 10 frames. I do indeed wonder if this causes any stutter.

EDIT Hmm thinking about it, it MIGHT not be a problem at all. Pimax is using their own custom renderer (instead of the SteamVR renderer), so as long as SteamVR tells the game to render at 80 hz and SteamVR then passes those 80 fps at 80 hz to the Pimax renderer, it would work. But I don’t know if that’s possible, maybe it is.

LOL…keep on this way to reasoning and it will led you to interesting ways to see it from a new perspective. Guaranteed…

[dustyearlobe]

yes im hoping it will evenly render 80fps and not have a dump section or miss frames out of a 90 fps sequence ,haven’t really heard anything like it ,BUT there’s always the question @Heliosurge

[Thoemse]

Dk2 to vive is better. It is however because of timewarp, not because of 90 hz.
The DK2 at stable 75 fps was fine.

[Ralf]

Thank you for the info…

[Flinnt]

With 80Hz we’re talking around a 12% difference to 90Hz. 12% is a long way from insignificant.
It’s a bold statement to say no one will notice.
A reminder of earlier prototype sampling where the question was put:
Is this 90 Hz?
Yes
Really?
Yes it’s 90 Hz
It can’t be.
Okay it’s not, you caught us out lying.

How did he know to persist with this question if he couldn’t tell the difference. (I think it was running at 75Hz at the time.

[denali]

Right. As if people aren’t going to be all over the map with what they get sick from. You could have a perfect real world refresh rate and some people are going to get sick because they won’t “keep their eyes on the horizon” or some such thing. I think this 90hz idea isn’t the largest factor is VR sickness. In fact I don’t think it is at all, because there have been crappier framerates on earlier VR systems and no one said anything about getting sick. I think it has much more to do with the content than any other factor, followed by the user’s habit of interacting and tracking their environment, VR or not.

[Sjef]

@denali

I think it has much more to do with the content than any other factor, followed by the user’s habit of interacting and tracking their environment, VR or not.

I don’t have any doubts that this is true. All the fps in the world won’t help you if the game itself induces nausea. However there are multiple factors here. It makes a lot of sense that latency induces nausea, if your eyes keep staring at the same frame for too long while you’re brain is expecting movement, then this mismatch will induce nausea. This definitely is a factor, question is of course at what framerate this is ‘solved’.

@denali

In fact I don’t think it is at all, because there have been crappier framerates on earlier VR systems and no one said anything about getting sick

Do you have any reference for this claim? Like I said if you google DK2 vs CV1 you’ll find that a lot of people reported less nausea after switching their DK2 (75 hz) for a CV1 (90hz).

[denali]

I’m talking about the VR systems before the oculus. There have been many, since the early 90’s. I think it is that the current generation is closer to reality that people’s sensitivities have been elicited in VR.

[CMM]

@deletedpimaxrep1, where the hell is the X and are the needed bridge chips in Pimax’s possession?

[twack3r]

They have stated that they would focus pretty much exclusively on the 5K/8K now until it’s completion and then tackle the X.

[twack3r]

For a lack of a more appropriate thread and because I don’t want to start a new one:

@deletedpimaxrep1 is there going to be a weekly update today? I’m asking because a) the last one was 7 days ago and because b) we are approaching the end of May in strides and I think everyone is excited to hear just when exactly you are shipping to beta testers.

Thanks for some feedback, much appreciated!

[Mau_S]

I guess that weekly update meaning, at least one update per week, and not at each seven days.

I can have an update on the Monday of the previous week and another on the Friday of the current week.

At least I understand that.