Display panel tech

I would imagine it should render/display like games would on a gaming monitor at 144hz.

@SweViver @Pumcy @mixedrealityTV @benz145 @Cdaked would likely be able to answer this as they evaluate headsets on a regular basis.

@Sjef & others might know if vr driver uses vsync. I imagine it would use it.

DOWN TO EARTH TEST:

These picture frames were taken using a Sony CCD, said to be one of the best in its class (23 MP), capable of Full-HD at 100Hz.

Since the shutter speed is ofter higher than the subject refresh rates, bands and black screen insertions can appear in the resulting image, otherwise no bands and/or flicker would be visible.

                             LG IPS 29' Ultrawide monitor @60Hz (Default).

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                          LG IPS 29' Ultrawide monitor - Overdrived @75Hz.

Thinner and less evident banding observed, due to the higher 75Hz (closer to the CCD shutter speed).

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 LG curved OLED Tv 55' at 4K , auto refresh rate (Game mode - highest possible setting).

No bands visible and no flicker, image barely had flicker on the camera screen before the shot, so guessing reaches 100Hz refresh or higher.

Also I did a through the lens quick test with Lenovo Explorer, black band strobing was heavily visible at his declared 90Hz default, way much than the LG IPS monitor.

Anyone is free to draw his/her own conclusions, obviously these artifacts are not noticeable to the naked eye in any case, so this will hardly be a big real problem for any of us Pimax fans, but it tells something about some numbers the panels claim.

Will try to test more monitors/panels with the same CCD if I find the occasion to do it, hopefully on a 144Hz gaming monitor.

(A word of advice, only high speed shutter cameras more than 60Hz should be used, and be aware that some phones like the Apple 7’s and 8 have a flicker auto cancelling filter that syncs the shutter to the screen area with a same refresh if you’re pointing the camera at monitors/Tv’s, even if using 120 or 240 frames x second, this could lead to inaccurate results).

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my ex wife could be running at 900hz and i would still feel nauseas…just saying…:grin:

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what shutter speed are you using for the
1st 2nd and 3rd photo?

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My point was another, please note…refresh is important, but pheraps it’s not the whole thing factor in inducing nausea.

It’s the strobing caused by the techniques used to try to push some panels to their limit, as it can be seen in the pictures, any lcd will have this resulting effect (even the video William showed us had it), and the brain notices it, resulting in a forced resync of the user’s brain waves, some perceive this effect with nausea, some don’t notice it much, but the resulting effect will be there in any case.

Contrarily, as the Oled tv shows, some of these high-end panels don’t have any strobing because they can adapt easily to the input image, so no resulting strobing or need to add/resync frames, even at high resolutions like 4K.

But this is not even the whole picture, as some older Oled panels used in VR even have an artificially added strobing effect, the older Vive is the most easily noticeable in this case, also the PS VR has it, I will not speculate again on the reasons of it but if you look at some very recent ones, like the Samsung Odyssey, it hardly had any strobing…and the CV1 is surprisingly good compared to others in this matter.

This can easily be verified in most through the lens videos circulating on the net…providing the camera used had a high enough shuitter speed (higher than the panel declared refresh rate you’re going to test) and no filter has been used.

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It is specified at the beginning of the post…all pictures have the same setting.

Yeah you said its capable of 100hz… but there are a lot of settings you know… 24fps 30fps 60fps etc
So you are using its 100fps fullhd setting?

Is it a camera or video cam?

Didnt quote understand your statement 100hz.

I mean usually shutter speed is in seconds/fraction of seconds and if you were taking a video that would be in fps.

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Do you know what is the shutter speed of your camera? Do you know what type of backlight is LG panel using? Is it CCFL or LED? Does it use PWM for brightness regulation?

Without this info it is difficult to say what you actually shot.

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Im not convinced strobing is a real time issue in this case 80-90 fps ,never heard of any study into increasing refresh rates of tvs, monitors to reduce strobing that induces sickness? ,mainly to increase real life motion effects .
Is why we need a steady 80 hz not a staggered one ,as we are more aware of movement in our peripheral so given 200 fov to play with any stuttering could be given to a mismatch motion events that could contribute to sickness or disorientation

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found a great article on it ,given our ability to sense motion on a fps /hz scale and other stuff How many frames per second can the human eye really see? | PC Gamer.

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The discussion at the article is for me more true than the article itself. Nearly 20 years ago, when I was playing UT99 on good CRT, I was able to perceive the difference between 120Hz and 160Hz refresh rate. Then between 160Hz and 180Hz not so much. This way I learned that there is no study which can explain that because it is clearly very individual as I knew people who could not spot the difference between 60 and 75Hz.

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Hehe I remember, back in the early 2000’s, working with a colleague who couldn’t spot the difference between 60 hz and 100 hz, he had his CRT monitor misconfigured on several occasions and sometimes was staring at horrible 60 hz flickering and didn’t even realize it. I seriously couldn’t watch his monitor for more than a few seconds without feeling nausea. He did complain about headaches though, lol. I always thought myself that 100 hz was the bare minimum for CRT monitors for it to be comfortable.

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I’v meet people who can’t perceive the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz and I’m inclined to believe that they are serious.
My personal upper limit is around 120Hz, after that I have a hard time seeing a difference even though I have a side by side comparison.

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But you’re talking modern technology, TFT, right? Risa2000 was talking about CRT. I once saw a CRT monitor that was running 50 hz (normally 60 hz was the minimum, I don’t think there were a lot of 50 hz versions), that was just a torture device, I don’t think there would be people who couldn’t have seen that, let alone 30 hz.

With TFT it’s much more difficult to notice.

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Ahh, sorry, I didn’t read that correctly.

That made me remember horrible mismatching of PAL and NTSC media on the wrong device. :weary:

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May I point out that consciously seen a differences in frame refresh level and induce Vr sickness is two thing. The brain only send a small portion of the information from the visual cortex to the conscious level

related links:

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yawl beginning to sound like them there brain sturgens

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An interesting part of that article :
This would indicate the larger the FOV the more motion sickness can be induced by lower refresh rates.

Very good paper ! And an excellent serious starting point.

At lest we are now thinking in the right direction