Pimax 8K clarity Fix

Pimax 8K Series
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After watching @SweViver’s latest lovely as hell comparison video, it seems as clear as day that the extra PPI on the 5K+ and its pixel grid layout makes it a clear winner.

So, I got to thinking. How could you make up for the PPI shortage on the 8K vs 5K+?

You need A lower magnification factor on your lenses.

You might, and I stress might lose a bit of H and V on the FOV, but you would get a way better PPD in return.

And I might add, we have already crossed this bridge with the “mormal” FOV mode

@deletedpimaxrep1 less magnification on the 8K’s lenses might be worth.looking into for a post release mail order upgrade when you have some revenue.

Maybe @SweViver can buy some lower magnification fresnels from Optolife, at about $20 if he can be told the 8Ks lens properties, and test it out? That way, there are no complaints about slowing anything down. @Neoskynet? @mixedrealityTV @neal_white_iii @Heliosurge ?

We have already seen that the testers love the “normal” FOV mode, for its increased performance, so if you had some lenses with lower magnification tailored to that mode, the SDE might actually disappear entirely on the 8K, without even needing a new panel, or new hardware.

AND WE CAN FINALLY END THE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT WHICH HMD ONE SHOULD GET!

Just my opinion, but all of the backers of both HMDs deserve the best they can get for their investment.

@mixedrealityTV can vouche for what I am saying about the lenses, as his conversation with Xtal and their demo demonstrated that you can minimize SDE with lenses tailored to such a purpose.

A lens that is optomized for the “normal” FOV mode would not need as much magnification, and could yeild a huge PPD BUMP.

This to me seems simpler than asking Pimax for free upgrades, cheaper than an 8K X, even the scaler and bandwidth limitations imposed by it would benefit.

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@Neoskynet I remember reading the post with Sweviver where you had tested the 8K with the 4K’s lenses?

Did you notice less SDE or “smaller pixels”?

If you did, all we need are fresnel lenses from Optolife cut to fit the 8K, that have the same or slightly lower magnification than those 4K lenses.

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I find it interesting that I have been talking about variable FOV and Swappable lenses since the start of the KS campaign, and variable FOV worked.

5K+ improvements it seems has made normal FOV optimized lenses, a viable fix to remedy issues with the 8K.

To be honest, 8K X sounds like an insane pipe dream, and 5K× is amazing, but 8K can be made equal to it.

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Neoskynet went silent since backer meetup

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@Neoskynet didn’t keep quiet.

Different solutions have been proposed all this time.

Including interchangeable lenses for better use of the screen and fov.

But Pimax apparently never reconsidered this proposal.

To my knowledge pimax has not written anything in the forum about it publicly

I do not know if internally to the tester gave any answer.

But the last video of @SweViver makes create many more doubts for those who initially bet on what would be the flagship of this kickstarter campaign of Pimax.

Hopefully they will reconsider the proposal to make lenses correctly adapted for Pimax 8k.

All of us who have opted for the v8k, which is the majority of sponsors, would be willing to purchase the new lenses.

Hopefully @Pimax-Support @deletedpimaxrep1 answer and solutions to all this.

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The thing is, lenses with lower magnification optimized for the normal mode would probably eliminate the screen door effect entirely. It would also make the image appear more detailed.

Even the 5K+ woild benefit from it.

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Sorry, I can’t talk.

The NDA for the Pimax M1 is still active. Pimax made us return the M1 and did not send us a 5K+ and 8K. They don’t want us to do any more tests.

There is a very angry tester in Pimax’s private testers forum, threatening us that we are on the edge of the red line. There are also other backers of the Pimax public forum wishing that those of us who speak are suing us for breach of the NDA. I don’t want to have legal problems and that’s why I’m not speaking in the Pimax public forum. It’s sad but some people don’t want us to talk.

@SweViver, @mixedrealityTV and @VoodooDE have all my admiration for what they’re doing. But especially SweViver, for taking a step further and risk taking out the lenses and showing the screen usage, and the rest of the test he’s doing.

I would like @SweViver and the other testers to do more tests. If you had about 5k+ and 8K, I could also help with more tests.

The situation is too compromised and I can’t talk. I hope you understand.

Cheers,
Neo

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I think we fully understand the situation you are in, and appreciate your efforts so far. You should definitely not put yourself at any risk, and frankly, at this stage I guess once the headsets are being sent to the backers everybody can perform & publish all kinds of reviews they wish to and then you will be free to talk too - this is just a couple of weeks away, would be pointless for you to take any risk here. Not that I consider it likely that you would be sued even if you disclosed more, but I am an outsider of course.

But at the same time I would like the RoV team (of which you are a part too, if I remember correctly), to not get lost entirely in the technical indepth analysis of details but also take a step back and with an open mind compare the headsets with the other currently/shortly available headsets on the market within an affordable price range. Also with the eyes of a user. And do not only focus on ‘plug & play no settings adjustments needed’ expectations. We simply are not there yet, we have to play around a lot even with the Vive & Rift to get them to work properly (USB ports & the Rift - a nightmare), settings in games often had to be tweaked until the 1080Ti appeared on the screen (a year after release of the Vive/Rift).

It is one story to focus on what it could have been in an ideal world, but it is even more important to tell the readers the story of what it actually brings to the table, when compared to the competitors, and which one makes them smile more after a month of use, even if some of its potential may have been sadly wasted. Many of us are not casual users, that is not the VR community today. And high-end spec expensive headsets will usually not address newcomers on entry level.

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Thank you for your kind words about the situation with the NDA.

In Spain we are two different testers groups that each receive different M1’s, in the same way that there are four different German testers with different M1’s and now M2’s.

The testers group is composed only of Knob2001, who is responsible for the RoV forum and we do not have access to their M1 or M2 test units. Unfortunately we no longer have any M1 and have not received any M2. I read Knob’s review at the same time as the other users, in the RoV forum, and I think it is very technical and professional, but I have my own opinions about it and prefer to keep them to myself. I think it’s better than my opinions when I can do intensive tests myself with the 5K+ and 8K.

The group of Spanish testers I’m in is made up of @Cdaked, @Guancho, @tristanc, @pacotaco and me, @Neoskynet.

In our group we are all very different and we also have different opinions. No doubt that’s why we form a great team. I am the most demanding with the image quality of our team, probably because I do projector reviews and I like movies. That may seem like a disadvantage, it really is not, because I can bring a different and more complete vision, because I have my eyes and brain very trained to see things that many people miss, and most importantly, I understand why they happen and therefore many times I know how to solve it or at least improve it.

I still believe that our participation in the 5K+ and 8K tests could be very valuable, and I personally have a critical but positive attitude, because whenever I find a problem, I provide solutions.

Cheers,
Neo

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I’m personally do not interested in any more testings and delays. We past this stage already. Now we are on reviews stage only. Later on, when HMD will be shipped, modding stage will begin. That when all ideas about lens modifications and stuff would be useful for enthusiasts willing to try. But on this stage - hardware design is fixed, topics like that are hardly relevant.

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No users can sue anyone on behalf of pimax regarding the NDA. But I do agree there are some that love to cause unneeded drama when they feel their viewpoint is threatened.

Neo I can appreciate your caution. But with this forum software we can easily form our own Private discussions with only having sensible users invited into a pm chat; to keep trolls at bay.

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Thank you, @Heliosurge. I agree with you and I will not speak about this topic again in the public forum. You are right that it is better not to feed the trolls.

I just wanted to explain why I don’t write here since the Berlin event. I wanted to make the causes clear in case someone thought I was hiding.

I would like to explain a lot of things, but I can’t because of the NDA, and even if there wasn’t an NDA, I have decided that I won’t explain them either.

I just want Pimax to send the 5K+ and 8K and get on with our lives.

Cheers,
Neo

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Well just keep in mind once you have the m2 versions; if folks want your input & insights please share even if in private.

My mind for one is open & I definitely appreciate good rounded discussions to improve awareness & knowledge.

Have found some lense bonding agents & other goodies (ie peal n stick bi-focals)

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Seems like a shetstorm is brewing just around the corner.

Hopefully we will received our 8K and 5K+ before it explodes, making it uneffective.

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Folks just need to remember this is an international forum & were likely to bind from time to time with viewpoints & experiences.

Just look at our world leaders more often look like primary school kids fighting over the sandbox. :beers::wink::+1::sparkles:

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Personally I would prefer that they focused on the 5k+, and tried to find a way to improve black levels, contrast and colour and distortion fixes.

They should drop the 8k entirely and focus on the 8kX with a 1.5-2 year timeframe with better panels, improved black levels, contrast and colour and distortion fixes.

To me the differencial quality between 5k+ and 8k are not enough to justify two separate products…This way they can concentrate on quality and support for less products and concentrate on delivering a better experience overall. The best way to make the 8k sharp is just to go native via 8kX

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The point is there are a ton of 8K backers, because that was the only initial product, and to abandon it would just be a massive waste of money, parts, resources, etc.

To Axe the 8K would require Pimax to eat a huge chunk of money already invested.

If an 8K tester can try an M2 with a fresnel lens that has slightly lower magnification, the SDE and shortcomings of the panel sub pixel layout, properties of the 8K panel, and scaler would be mitigated significantly.

The 5K would also benefit, so its not like it would see no returns.

@neal_white_iii’s suggestion of preemptive sharpening in software is also an awesome idea.

I do think that only a lens change can really fix the disparity between 5K+ and 8K given that the 8K’s displays simply cant compete with 5K+.

The only way to actually fix it is for the 8K to receive a bump in pixels per degree, and that requires a lens change.

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@deletedpimaxrep1 Idea: please work on lower magnification lenses as accessory for lower SDE.

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Lens iterations are expensive.

I think the appropriate way to fix the 8K would be to use new “full RGB stripe” panels. Such a panel might not exist at an affordable price. Plus the 8K is already in production, so I think this is something which should be considered for the more expensive 8KX headset.

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I disagree with your analyses about 50% of the user polled in this forum will switch for the 5K+, so the 8K is already taking a hard blow. The 5K+ and the 8K share the same development path and differ only by the LCD and the upscaler. If the 5k+ is a commercial success the 8K could die prematurely without really hurting Pimax.

It also a bad idea to have 2 lens set this cost a great deal of money and imply probably 2 different case for the headsets. The logical course of action is to delay the commercial debut of the 8K and actively seek a new lcd and controller. The new 8k+ equip with a new real RGB linear matrix LCD and new controller could have a real native 4K mode in 24hz,48hz,60hz for movies or slow games, It could also be the first step toward the 8Kx. This would be a killer product even vs the 5k+

remember for Pimax this KS campaign is not the endgame, there is no real big market for the 8Kx and maybe not even for the 8K in is present state.

I hope Pimax will improve the 8K but I will not gamble on it.

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