Just can't get IPD settings right on the 8KX

[Octofox]

Been trying IPD settings for 30 mins and reading ED text, just not right. Always blurry in one eye, until I turn my head. Looking straight at text can’t be clear in both eyes. Had to take a break it was too uncomfortable, plus the weight of the thing is significantly more than the 5k+. No wonder they refused to disclose the weight in advance when asked.

5k+ may not have been perfectly set up, but was acceptable. Minimum mechanical IPD and offset of -1.5 was OK.

I guess mechanical minimum must stay the same. I think I need to have somewhere between -1.5 and 1.5 of offset on the 8KX, any extremes and it feels really wrong.

Reading this: https://community.openmr.ai/t/how-to-make-your-pimax-image-picture-screen-clear-crisp-increase-clarity/29688

And this: https://community.openmr.ai/t/guide-how-to-achieve-perfect-real-view-with-pimax-ipd-compensation/18369

But no joy. I changed the default image to the IPD one, I find I can never get the text clear and crisp, is it possible? Changing settings makes them illegible.

I see a bit of curved distortion too, which I never had on the 5k+. I am currently using a thicker VRMust foam because the supplied thin one was instantly and obviously unusable to me. But perhaps the VRMust foam isn’t enough either? I might try to velcro both together and see how that goes…

[Teigue]

you can try different eye relief values, try brifely read this https://community.openmr.ai/t/clarifying-near-ipd-x-distant-ipd-confusion/14809

if your min IPD isn’t enough by going further from display you can get narrow IPD requirement as IPD changes with eye relief value on canted screens HMDs

also you can try a bit bigger value as well & try to push your face closer, it depends on the distortions &has tilting (how bad the HMD looks overall apart of clarity), if you find the spot where distortions are ok & more or less apart of clarity is also ok then you can tweak mechanical ipd.

software IPD shouldn’t affect both eyes clarity, only mechanical I guess, it just affects world scale & sense of 3D for some ppl.

[Octofox]

Thanks had a look, when you say eye relief values, do you mean software offset? So far with an hour of testing offset and checking, I have not found any settings that work. Totally different to my 5k+ experience.

If anything I need to push my face back, but I tried to add velcro to the VRMust thick foam. Here is the problem, sorry for the bad mouse drawing I hope it makes sense.

Looking straight at text like the first image, one or both eyes are blurred.

Looking at an angle, I can get the text to be clear in either eye. But of course this is not usable:

[Teigue]

@Octofox

eye relief values

it’s the physical distance between eyes & lenses, e.g. og vive, vive pro, valve index have eye relief adjustment - it allows it to pull screens closer or push them further of your face

[Teigue]

I know this problem with both eyes in focus at once & had it for a long time for my 5k+, I don’t know what exactly fixed it but I experimented a lot, I have 67-68.5 IPD though.

It’s really one of the biggest Pimax issues but some ppl get lucky to mitigate it.

[Octofox]

OK yes understood, well not something we can do with Pimaxes But I managed to get the 5k+ set up OK in this regard, but the 8KX is not working.

I’ll try and add a lot of velcro and maybe this will make it usable, if not ideal

[Octofox]

No, still can’t get any solution to work. My head hurts so I have to take another break.

Right now I’m feeling really disappointed, it’s not usable at all and I didn’t expect such a huge difference from the 5k+

[dstar]

Take the HMD a little bit higher or lower, first time with the VRmust foam, press the hmd near to your eyes. The foam needs some hours to fit then perfect. Set the IPD 3-4mm lower than your real IPD. The digital IPD also.

dont worry, first time with my 8k+, i need 1 day to find the perfect match.
After this, with my test 8kx here, only 2minutes.

[Octofox]

Thanks for the tips, I’m trying again now. I hope it will settle in.

@dstar

Set the IPD 3-4mm lower than your real IPD

It’s set as low as it goes ~60mm, same as 5k+. For software IPD I’m trying between -0.5 and -1.5.

Neither is perfect though, I can’t get it right. I get slight blur on any text when looking straight at it, which essentially means I lose the resolution and doesn’t look that much better than the 5k+. In addition, I see some glitching distortion sometimes, not on the edge but towards the centre. And the world doesn’t feel quite right any more, it’s distracting.

I can close one eye, look at an angle, and see the text clear and crisp. Doesn’t matter which eye. But both eyes directly ahead? Blurred. When I didn’t have the 5k+ offset quite right, one eye was in focus dead ahead and the other slightly blurred. So this is different.

[dstar]

use digital ipd -3 or -4 !!! or lower

then you can see, the mechanical ipd value also changes under 60

[Octofox]

Yes I tried! It was super horrific for me. Just to be sure, also the other way with small and big positive settings, also didn’t work.

But, I’m not done, and will keep trying. Maybe some magic will happen

[Octofox]

Getting better, not getting eyestrain and been trying ED, DCS, and Aircar. Despite the slight forward facing blur, DCS and Aircar still look amazing.

And I am more appreciative of the MAS now, keeps the unit properly in place when looking around, despite the extra weight of the X. Good enough that I don’t really need a counterweight either.

[Teigue]

I guess to do some tests & try to avoid headache you can use only one eye at a time.

Look at center where you usually look & by removing gasket trying to change eye relief value & mechanical IPD find the spot where it looks the most crisp in the spot where you look when play (straight ahead I guess). Once done then you can start experimenting with the other eye, also if one eye gets tires you can swap them as finding HMD position for crispest image doesn’t require both eyes open until you find it & then you need to ensure software IPD is tuned so your world scale & eyes strain are not the cases.

[Miracle]

Congratulations, is the problem completely solved?

[Octofox]

Thank you! Not completely, it is usable, looks good and I am not getting eyestrain or headaches.

But I am not getting crisp resolution straight ahead, slightly blurred but still very good. I can tell because I close one eye, turn my head in the appropriate direction and from an angle, everything looks super sharp. Can be either eye.

So, unlike 5k+ I have not found the right IPD setting, although I did spend nearly an hour on first setup trying various combinations. But it was only day one, so I’ll try again soon. I have suggestions from @Teigue and others to try, but any thoughts you have are welcome!

[Octofox]

Thanks yes I will just have to try more settings again, I just couldn’t find that perfect alignment so far. At least world scale and depth seems OK and I am not getting eye strain

[Octofox]

I think I found an insight into the problem, and it might be physical. Might just have to accept it until lenses exist with a bigger sweet spot.

I noticed on dark backgrounds that I can see the circle of the sweet spot of the lenses. And the problem is that when looking straight at things, both eyes don’t sit in the middle of the area, but just into an inner area where slight distortion is introduced.

Once again sorry for the ropey drawing, but conveys the point. The black circles are the lenses (yes I know they’re not actually round), the Xs are where my eyes look straight ahead, and the red circles are the sweet spots - so when I close one eye and turn my head, the angle means I look through that area and everything is sharp.

So I guess I just need eyes further apart (!) or lenses that come closer together / have a larger sweet spot.

I got it away with it on the 5k+ but not here it seems.

I have tried adding velcro to the thick pad I have, and every combination of offset, but none of that changes the fundamental issue I keep having.

Perhaps super super thick padding might help, but I guess will cause other problems like MAS fitment / FOV problems etc.

Any suggestions are very welcome though, it looks nice enough right now, but disappointing that I can never see things crisply when straight on.

[SilverFalcon]

Only thing I can think of, is to remove all padding temporarily and try to freely move front and back and see if at some point the sweet spot travels to the critical area you need. Theoretically, at some position, ideal lens should be focused on the whole surface, while imperfect one could have multiple positions where various parts are in focus. If it doesn’t work with both eyes, closing one and moving on more axes should at least give a hint where the optimum lies whether accessible to specific IPD or not.

[Teigue]

@Octofox

So I guess I just need eyes further apart (!) or lenses that come closer together / have a larger sweet spot.

Yes, it sounds right, seems you got the idea.

Btw, what is yours IPD?
Some ppl having eye relief head limit until which they can’t put HMD close even without lenses as they start touching browns / cheeks etc.
Others have narrow IPD & it requires more eye relief value (further from screens) but I think that it also has some disadvantages as geometry changes as well

I just thought about this case a bit & think that eye relief doesn’t affect the picture crispness but it can help with distortions & world scale.

What affects it is the mechanical IPD only, if you look at this image:

It doesn’t matter how closer/further you will move your screens, your pupils always will look through the same lenses area but if eyes converge it can be better & scale also is better.

To get crisp picture in both eye simultaneously you need to move lenses close to each other so eyes axises will pass directly through lenses circles centres. But as you can see real IPD is the limiting factor here if lenses can’t bee put close enough you won’t get both eyes clear.

I guess it can be tested, dial both lenses to min position & measure distance between lenses circles with a rule, then compare to your IPD, I bet you IPD is more narrow than X min lenses circles distance.

On my 5k+ & 5kXR I have min IPD lenses circles distance about 64mm, what is yours on 8kX, is it any different?

PS: Actually objects look smaller in distance so you might catch lenses circles as the whole HMD view will get smaller with distance increasing but I guess it will be too way uncomfortable & other issues as well. But why you need velcro just try with keeping your HMD in hands though.

[Octofox]

Thanks to you both for the suggestions, greatly appreciated.

@SilverFalcon

see if at some point the sweet spot travels to the critical area you need

Yes absolutely I tried again to just hold the headset in my hands, and move it up / down / forward / backward to get both eyes in the spot, and I just can’t find one

what is yours IPD

I think about 62, maybe a bit less. That image you posted does seem to sum it up, I’m not hitting the sweet spot in both eyes.

I just assumed if the 5k+ was OK, then the 8KX would be the same, having the same lenses and mechanical adjustment. But perhaps there are differences caused by the smaller panels and the way the lenses are aligned with them.

I did have some initial problems with the 5k+ tbh, with my right eye slightly out of alignment. I put it down to slipping due to the poor comfort setup and cloth strap. But I initially did not have an IPD offset, but later I used -1.5 and this helped - was probably never perfect though. Same minimum mechanical IPD like the 8KX, but no offset is helping here.

I just did a quick measurement from centre to centre of the 8KX lenses, with the comfort kit removed, and it’s about 66mm. I can’t get the 5k+ cowling off atm, but it seems roughly the same, as I assumed it would be.

I noticed during testing that when I’m looking at detail straight ahead, I have slight blur in both eyes. If I keep my head still and glance left, I get full clarity in my left eye, but bad blurring in my right. So of course it looks good if I close my right eye, and really uncomfortable if I keep them both open. The exact reverse is true if I glance to my right. I don’t ever recall such an extreme with the 5k+ so I’m puzzled by this. It can’t just be the comfort kit. If I can remove the 5k+ cowling, I’ll try that with the same velcro and padding I used on it.

If I check a long line of text, or look at FPS VR, different parts of the text have different clarities depending on which part of the lens I’m looking through. Must be right on the limit, so a mm or two shift here or there has an impact.