I want to start a discussion on this seeing as there are so many different IPD setup and settings adjustment methods, clearly what might work for one person might not work for another but if we share our IPD software and hardware settings in this thread, and try each other’s settings guides after adjusting the settings to our IPD measurements maybe we can at least all get a better idea about what works and what doesn’t.
IPD Wizard discussion: Which software and hardware settings do you use to eliminate eyestrain, crossed-eyes, blur and why?
These are probably the two most helpful postings from @risa2000:
My takeaway from this is that (without the software IPD settings) we can choose two out of three: sharpness, correct spatial perception, no squinting
Have experimented with these three settings (have an IPD of 64mm):
a) hardware IPD: 64 mm, software IPD: 0 mm => slightly blurry, mostly correct 3d vision
b) hardware IPD: 60.1mm (minimum), software IPD: 0 mm => sharp, still mostly correct 3d vision for games with parallel projection on
c) hardware IPD: 60.1mm (minimum), software IPD + 3.9 (2x +1.95) mm => sharp, vision somehow wrong
Theoretically c should be the best option, but doesn’t really work for me. As most games need parallel projection anyways, I usually use b for most things but sometimes also go back to c.
Will be interesting what the wizard will propose!
P.S.: Just tried the HW: 60mm, SW: 2x+2mm setting again with a game that also works with parallel projection off (Eleven Table Tennis). And it also kind of works after a little while. The brain seems to be quite adaptable No heureka effect but workable.
Unfortunately, the second post is now the most misleading post on this forum I know, because Pimax, in their infinite wisdom, changed how “IPD offset” in PitTool works to something completely different. What I described in the post was really an IPD offset (i.e. a correction applied to the virtual rendering camera positions).
However the new functionality (which was introduced recently) and which is more discussed here (https://community.openmr.ai/t/optical-calibration-in-depth-info-on-hardware-and-software-ipd-function-in-newest-pitool-version/34213/36) is totally different.
It no longer changes the IPD (or the virtual camera positions), but instead arbitrarily shifts the images across the screens. Pimax even did not bother to indicate a unit of the shift.
The consequences are (besides making my original post invalid) that you can no longer use it to compensate for the geometry correction coming from an IPD discrepancy. At the moment there is no known method (EDIT: in PiTool, as apparently there are other methods as fpsVR) to do that. This is probably why your:
Does not work as (incorrectly) expected.
The sw offsets in PiTool are pretty useless to me.
I have a measured IPD of 67.9mm and get the best results with my 8KX with a hw IPD at 63mm and a +5 offset in fpsVR.
Thanks for the clarification. So it makes no sense to get my brain used to wrong offsets
Will keep it at offset 0 for the moment then with the two methods used before and wait whether the IPD wizard will provide good offset values.
I find it very hard to find good offset values by trial and error (except for completely unacceptable extreme values) because the brain gets used to a certain value and changing the value first seems always wrong, then after a few seconds okish - and if I switch back to the old value it’s the other way around, until the brain got used to that value again.
In the meantime perhaps it would be better to use a realistic game scene instead of the PE adjustment screen and just put the mouse over the adjustment button in PiTool.
Good to know, I was not aware there was such an option in fpsVR. This way you could replicate the missing functionality from PiTool (while using my original post as an inspiration ).
On the second thought though there is still an uncharted water of Pimax warping function and how it impact the IPD offset. My guess would be that it is still warped wrong (for a wrong IPD), but it probably does not matter that much (or at least as much as having wrong geometry).
But @risa2000, correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t there 2 important things here:
- panel misplacement due to manufacturing problems by Pimax
- uneven irises in some users
Problem 1 would actually be solved by just changing the software offsets WITHOUT changing the rendering, right? It’s really just like you’re correcting misplaced panels? In fact I’m speculating this is the problem in the majority of cases due to the fact that Pimax just has not been able to do very exact manufacturing and that that’s the reason why they changed it like this (only moving the image position on the panel, not the rendering)
Right. This is the situation which can be mitigated by PiTool software offsets.
Not really. If for example you have eyes which are at different PDs (e.g. mines are 36,5 mm and 35,5 mm) then in order to render the scene correctly for them, you would need to shift the virtual rendering cameras accordingly. The point is to render the scene from where your eye is seeing it.
The same is true for vertical eye shifts (i.e. one having one eye higher than the other).
Yeah but that’s exactly my point. In situation 1 you would just need to change the position of the image on the panel, like pimax is doing now. But for situation 2 you would indeed need to change the virtual rendering camera. So depending on what situation you’re in, you’d need different solutions.
I use an 8KX for MSFS2020, here’s how i completely relieved my eyestrain:
- look in a mirror with a metric ruler on your nose across your face. with one eye open, put it at 0 mark
- switch eyes. you should see your other eye over your IPD number. Set the hardware IPD wheel to that.
- sit in cockpit in VR (or go in whatever environment). in real-world, have an object at the same distance in front of you, optimally about 1m away
- focus on the cockpit gauges, and without moving your eyes, remove the goggles
- note how the double-image of the real-world object refocuses. in my case, i initially saw the left image 10mm higher than the right, and maybe 30mm horizontally.
- adjust your higher eye vertical offset down a little. repeat 4-5 until your eyes refocus horizontally
- adjust software ipd horizontal until vr object and realworld object don’t need any eye refocusing
I was so thankful for the separate vertical offsets! i didnt even know my one eye was a little higher.
Now, i can focus (pun unintended) on MSFS FPS!
edit: i should mention that i had to make slight adjustment on the software horizontal ipd numbers, my brain was telling me i was a giant human walking slowly over a miniature town vs. flying over them at 1000ft
You are right! I misread your post thinking you consider both situations eligible for the PiTool software offset.
Im following this with great interest and i really do hope they come up with something magnificent to sort out all these eyestrain issues. I cant say ive been holding my breath though. After owning the 8KX for 3 months + im still plagued by eyestrain whereas on the 5k+ once i found the -0.5 vertical i could use it for 8 hours straight for weeks at a time with no discomfort. If i had it on min 60 ipd or my measured at 64 didnt make much of a difference. The 8kX really isnt worth it set on 64, its like looking trough heavily smudged glasses. 58 would have been perfect but ill settle for a discomfort free experience hopefully at 60
I just did a write up on reddit on how i finally solved my ipd issues which have haunted me badly for years.
I’d thought I’d ask here too.
NOOB IPD questions.
I’ve had the 8k X for a month now and still can’t get a clear image. I’ve tried the mechanical and Pitool IPD and Vertical Offsets but haven’t really gotten anywhere.
Most annoying issue is Double Vision. No matter what I adjust, I’m having to physically push the hmd to the right to get the image sharper but still double vision.
I noticed when in a Indycar in Iracing the steering wheel is double visioned but if I look ahead it’s a bit clearer but I have to push the hmd to the right to get it sharper.
The mechanical IPD ranges from 60 - 70mm
My IPD is 66mm, the only measurement my optometrist gave me and I’m short sighted. My vision is clear about 20cm/10 inches in front of me then it gets blurry before or after that.
I need guidance as I’m sure I’m adjusting things incorrectly.
Awesome to hear that this worked for you and that you’ve now fixed your eye strain! Your method didn’t work for me though, it seems my eyes really quickly adapt, leaving me almost no time to think what’s happening. However you inspired me to mess around some more time and I can now say, I’ve now cracked it too!! Here’s my solution:
First I messed around with the hardware IPD slider. My goal was to get sharp image in both eyes. What happens is that if one of your eyes is too far away from the lens center, the image gets blurry in that eye (because the edges of the lenses are blurry). So I focused on an object maybe 1-2 meter in front of me and then moving that object a bit and alternate looking through your left and right eye and and try to maximize the space in front of you that you can see sharp with both eyes. My IPD is 69.5 but I ended up using 66. So if you’ve done this part correctly you now have very clear vision, although you might still experience eye strain. So the most important step is the next one, to fix that:
in PE, go to the software offset sliders. First let’s do the horizontal offset. Decouple both sliders, and just move the first one to the left extreme, or maybe to -5. Now use one eye to aim at the + button (with both eyes open it will be hard). Once aimed at the button, open both eyes, (keep your hand steady of course) relax your eye muscles and then start increasing. Relax your eye muscles, so that the image will be garbled up, you’ll see double, and focus on the circle of the slider. You’ll actually see two circles now because of the double vision. Try to have your eye muscle totally relaxed and then keep pressing the +, you will then notice that the two circles (in your double vision) will start to get closer and closer. Just when they touch each other, notice the number. For example Let’s say this happens at -1.2. Then move the same slider to the positive extreme (or maybe +5 is enough). Relax your eye muscle again, start decreasing, while focusing again on that circle of the slider, you’ll see 2 again and while keeping your eye muscle relaxed, keep decreasing until the two circles kiss each other and notice the number. Let’s say this is + 0.6. Now do this several times to make sure your numbers are correct.
At times you’ll accidentally focus and your double vision will be gone, so then just increase the offset again (further away from 0) until you easily see double again and then relax your muscles again.
Also do notice that the more your eye muscles relax, the circles will drift slightly away, further from each other. So it’s important to do this when your muscles are totally relaxed.
If you’ve done that, simply take the average of the 2 settings and that’s what you’ll set it to. So in my example -1.2 + 0.6 = -0.6. Then -0.6/2 = -0.3, so you’ll set it to that, since -0.3 is exactly in the middle of those two.
Then do this for the other eye too.
After that do the horizontal offset. Decouple the sliders. This time focus on the slider horizontal lines. If you set the first eye to for example -5 you’ll see double, then start increasing until the lines are aligned, notice the number again, Then do it from the max, start decreasing, notice that number and take the average. Then do it for the other eye and set it again to the average.
This really fixed my eye strain. In fact I now have razor sharp image, MUCH better 3d effect, way better immersion and everything just looks and feels so much better now! In fact, this now feels like a whole new headset and I can honestly say it’s now the first time that I’m REALLY enjoying the 8kX-!
BTW, it’s probably best if you do this step 2 with an object (the lines/circles) in the distance, since that’s where you won’t have double vision in real life with eye muscle relaxed. I didn’t set it that far away though and it seems to work perfectly, but I’ll try and tweak it some more. Then again, I’m already really happy with the result, this really feels like a new headset now!
Thats so awesome!!
Heres some useful threads on IPD I have saved. I can’t really offer much in the way of advice as I have constant double vision anyway so what works for me definitely won’t work for anyone else, since my eyes look at images like this | |, Rather than like this /\
Any IPD setting discrepancies to my actual IPD don’t cause me any discomfort (because I already have double vision) for me setting the IPD is an exercise of making the blur and eyestrain from only seeing one image clearly at one time go away, and I have to reduce my hardware IPD to the minimum 60mm (my measured IPD is 65mm).
Fortunately my condition makes Pimax headsets a lot more bearable to use when using the incorrect IPD settings.
To help Pimax with the IPD Wizard, I think each of us should try some of the IPD guides posted above, see if any work better than what you’re already doing.
Then report back to this thread to let @sweviver @arminelec know what you used to do for IPD adjustment, and what you might be doing now instead after reading the guides in this thread to get an even better experience. That feedback and the best guides can then be put into the IPD Wizard.
@Djonko and @Risa2000 have also contributed some really interesting insights on how the software IPD now works in Pimax after the recent pitool update which might help anyone get a better understanding of how the IPD adjustment worked before and after the Pitool update, for any who have missed it.
Sounds like you might need to do the extreme IPD mod to get a clear view in both eyes. 65-64mm measured IPD set to 60mm seems to be the cutoff point before both eyes are blurry looking straight ahead. https://amp.reddit.com/r/Pimax/comments/bq4q8f/extreme_ipd_mod/
As has been mentioned by others before it is suspected that the reason some people have clarity issues with the 8KX but not with the 5K+, is potentially due in part or in whole to the fact that Pimax used smaller displays for the 8KX without changing the lenses, and without shifting the displays further back or further forward to compensate for the fact the displays are smaller whilst the lenses remained unchanged.
@stixvr you asked me about this in another thread and I don’t have an answer beyond that, the discussions on the issue has been buried but it has been talked about shortly after the 8KX released. If someone else who knows more on why there’s clarity problems on the 8KX for people who have used the 5K+, whilst those same people having no clarity issues on the 5k+, that discussion would be useful to have.
It’s also been speculated that it could have to do with the rendering or view distance in the Pimax is set to a certain amount on the 5K+, and this view distance may be changed in the 8KX due to smaller display panels being used, which could be causing some problems.
Try doing what @smitty suggested in his post 4 posts above yours in this thread, if that doesn’t work try using some of the IPD guides I linked in this thread.
If that doesn’t help, maybe using an IPD offset in fpsVR to account for vertical or horizontal eye asymmetry might help you more than the current Pitool software IPD offset would help, if you do indeed have a slight vertical or horizontal eye asymmetry.
Try using Risa’s second IPD guide https://community.openmr.ai/t/pitool-ipd-offset-how-does-it-work/22344 - but substitute using Pitool for fpsVR since Pitool no longer changes virtual camera rendering positions if you suspect you have a horizontal or vertical eye assymetry which may be causing your double vision.