Bigscreen Beyond - 5k OLED and tiny

To a point yes. But we need the better micro oled displays that are not limited to 1920×1920 per eye at 90hz.

Form factor though is a move in the right direction Even though the BSB is only a basic bare bones pcvr headset. Add the missing options and it would be bigger.

Now they can make a brainbox to achieve AiO be it Android or pcvr standalone.

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I think thats one of the two things along with FoV thats stops me ordering one.

A compatible mobile phone would do wonders for BSB.

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Linus plays VR pretty regularly, mostly just beat saber but he has a dedicated VR rig in his living room and is pretty good at BS actually. He had an 8K X for example but didn’t review it because he had comfort issues with the nose area and apparently no one else on the team is big enough into VR to do a full review.

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He actually prefers more a VR hmds like BSB & Vive / Index. Having same preferences I understand him in this regard quite well. Ppl often look at devices papaer specs but the same specs on 2 different hmds do too many differences & xp is totally different like all those tiny things (grid pattern, persistence, contrast, software optimization etc).

BSB hmd is exciting, it excites, crystal, vr3 dont excite me, q3\pro eithee but this one excites. Oled, native steamvr, lighthouse tracking, form factor, it looks awesome, its very well made to be trully modded, mic quiality is top notch, its lighetst vr on the planet, it has truly display cable & no all those ugly wireless codecs, all this audio drivers issues every update etc.

As a buyer I was invited to the discord server I didnt see so much passion & enthusiasm for VR last years, ppl just post mods, impressions every day, it looks like it gets very popular.

isnt it a current display port 1.4 limitation? panel does well in 90hz. the port just cant feed all the data and they have to upscale it as panel density is big.

just look at this & this, its the future, they need to put Q3 lenses (a bit smaller but clearly) there & it will be nearly ideal

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Haha that photo is actually pretty funny. But yeah, also pretty accurate. People don’t want a brick on their head. BSB definitely showed the way.

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No see 5k+ 5kS of 8kX or revised 8kX

All have had higher bandwidth req. It is a limitation of these panels used. Do we know if uOled well the ones used in BSB/Arpara ar RGB or pentile? If pentile even less bandwidth in use

The panel manufacturer clearly stated that they only do full res @75hz and reduced to 1980x1980/eye @90hz.

I believe Apple and Immersive are using newer better uOleds at 4k with higher refresh iirc.

To a point. However should be a side by side of a more mainstream hmd like Q2, Index or HTC hmd. :joy:

not sure about manufacturer statements, need to check, but e.g. 8kx has about 16mil pixes, BSB has about 13, 8kx has huge FOV & can do res decrease on edges which won’t be noticable, while BSB has standard HMD’s FOV & static foveated rendering isn’t applicable here. I recall vive pro 2 (which is about 4800x2400 in total, which is less than BSB - 5120 2560) had issues with bandwidth & couldn’t work without DSC. I assume 8kx uses some edge cuts / DSC or other tricks to accomplish that.

8kx has about 20 ppd (first googled article) while BSB has about 28 & many ppl state it extremely sharp, some say on upscale its about Q3 level while on native its way sharper. It means 8kx can easily trick & state native as due to big fov & less ppd difference is less noticable.

Original 8kX and other pimax hmd models earlier than revised 8kX works in 10series cards which have no DSC support. DSC support didn’t come until the 20series. 90hz on og 8kX native requires DSC

Revised 8kX and newer HMDs like VP2 req DSC support. That being said a couple of ppl had 10series cards work with the VP2 but didn’t look good and iirc had other performance issues.

BSB in upscale mode will suffer missing details(sharpness like you said) not that unsimilar to upsfaled 8k+ vs native 8kX. Due to higher ppd though BSB even in upscaled ppd will look quite decent. The BSB ppd you quoted is that native res ppd or the lower upscaled ppd?

Now look at Crystal ppd and it is higher ppd due the even higher rea/eye and how higher refresh rates and runs on dp 1.4 with DSC.

Limit is as the micro oled manufacturer stated. Panel limitation not bandwidth.

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Crystal has Eye Tracking, its a different story. Their panels yes stand to get higher persistance when brightness gets higher, mb it makes sense that they are no that fast, though from practice on oled screen refresh rates feel different as indivual pixels switch, I always liked smoothnes in oled hmd & ppl on forums also mention that it feels smooth in BSB. I will read about panels more as have no much information there. I doubt Crystal doesnt utilize ET to mitigate those issues.

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You forget ET was not working on launch and some games are not compatible with ET.

So that is not a factor in driving native res when ET is not involved.

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Not sure how games should deal with it. Even if game has no support and you can’t get gains on performance, on a driver level you always can get that stream data after render and do whatever you want to do, compress, strip some data etc, it will allow hardware pipeline to fit physical requirements like bandwidth and other stuff. Do you say that Crystal supports looseless stream transfer across it’s whole panel utilizing 100% of it’s panel pixels with matching source resolution not compromising on image quality in that or another way and providing pure 90hz refresh rate? Not using some firmware hacks to use less data on periphery vision and so on.

Also you need to consider that barrel distortion, chromatic aberration and other fixes require render to provide higher input resolution than hmd panel’s and all that is done by driver and doesn’t require game support then on PC side after all tweaks that stream matching panel resolution is sent to a HMD. BSB requires around 3600 per eye in steam settings in order to not lose sharpness after all corrections . But anyway you send 2560x2560 per eye then in native mode. in Crystal I suppose some hardware used to do some stuff with stream afterwards on target side after a data transfered by Display port and DSC decompressed and before it’s actually rendered to display. It’s that heavy not without a reason. DP hmds are light, standalone hmds likes modern quest 500 grams, but Crystal is around 1.1kg

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Not sure how the Crystal does it but I assume the same way Varjo has been doing it with a higher res than the BSB on the Aero:

As @Heliosurge correctly stated, using DSC allows for lossless compression to transmit higher resolutions than DP1.4 would allow for natively and requires zero decoding on the target side.

I was under the impression this was also the case with the BSB and that’s why I preordered. Once I learned that it does use DSC but still cannot achieve more than 1920x1920 @ 90hz because of the panel‘s limitation rather than the bandwidth, I cancelled.

If there is a BSB2 or a revised BSB with a panel that doesn’t suffer from this limitation, I will order immediately.

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SteamVR reports my Crystal headset resolution set at 100% as 4312 x 5100 per eye

My GPU :fire:

its just interesting how you can render upscaled image to 2560 at 90hz & cant render just not upscaled one at the same hertz. If thats as its in real it more looks like panel or pre panel chip has processing limit, but how can you still render upscaled 2560x2560, doesnt make sense for me. Probably there are different variables like pixels response time & channels bandwidth that control the pixels but if thats true I wonder is image being upscaled to full 2560 px then. :thinking: Perhaps they use DSC up to panels limit & the difference in sharpness occurs. I need to see it myself, ppl say its noticable but some like latter coz of less jaggies (aka free aliasing) But many play at 75hz and say as its oled it feels way better than lcd 75 so they are fine with that.

Interesting thing is that one simmer with Aero said in his first impressions that he prefers BSB more than Aero & visuals despite a bit less sharper overall look better for him. Also there is lenses lottery, if you lucky & ipd set right for you then glare is way less noticeable & primarily you need to look down to see it. I dont see ppl complaining about edge2edge clarity & fov. Many though face wrong ipd issue but they get RMAed.

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Well… DSC is “perceptually” lossless, as in: “It is actually lossy, but such-and-such a percentage of our test group can barely tell the difference”.

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I’m looking spot on here.

NGL that looks terrible. If it is indeed getting worked over by the XTAL folks hopefully they will make it work well, but afaik any lens fusion like this will cause distortions. Not to mention game engines could barely handle StarVR without additional dev work and custom plugin, so this has me doubting how well this will fly long term. Plus its not a new idea Panasonic did this in like 2017?

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You could be right. It could be a nightmare to glue two lenses together. Maybe your eyes can focus past the lens like when you have dust on a camera lens. But even if you can just about see a line where theres a join, its a start. With Anamorphic you have to get bigger and bigger for more FOV and i reckon Pimax have already maxed their headset out.

Pancake is the future for the next 10 years and the Quest 3 from what I’ve heard is amazing. If Hypervision can do that over 200FoV at a reasonable price I’m sure its a winner.

Pimax will be stuck with hybrid Anamorphic/fresnel lenses for the 12k and the next 3 years. In that time hypervision will be onto a new generation and Quest4 will be out.

Devs will support anything that they find amazing. And Hypervision have that “amazing”.

With VRgineers, Big Screen and Somnium all onboard I think we only have to wait for DP 2.1 to see this technology come to to fore. No need for custom plugins. I’m sure Valve will be onboard too and Steam will be modified to suit.

Its great to see a dedicated streaming App for Steam on the Quest 3.

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