There’s no trade in of the 8KX for the Crystal and new 8KX is practically non-existent.
Weird. I thought I saw somewhere even the 8K could be used to trade up to the Crystal. Maybe they removed it?
I remember this specifically because I was asking before if we could trade up from the Crystal to the 12K.
In looking at the trade up information at the time, I could have sworn I saw 8K as a candidate to trade up to the Crystal.
nope, 12k only
There has never been a trade in offer for the crystal. Nor can the crystal be traded in for the 12K. At least not yet.
On the one hand, it is quite … awful for PIMAX. On the other hand, would be helpful to get a realistic release date for the 12KX, let´s say… 2025 Q1.
This would allow to let Crystal become mature, and based on that, 12KX may be ready.
Then we may see a NV 5090, which could drive it properly… perhaps.
I will say the 12k will never happen. And the more time goes by the less chance it has of happening.
I think Crystal will be Pimaxes last headset.
They’ve taken a position on the past of being ‘THE’ headset for wider FoV and the whole ‘8K’ thing…
Now their position is the PPD quality picture.
I think they now need to combine the two. I think perhaps they’re trying to do that with the 12K, but we still do not have enough concrete information on it. Honestly it’s hard to rely on what’s said. Specifically, just how much FoV is achievable and at what PPD? AFAIU, the 12K shares around 70% of the design/hardware of the Crystal. The biggest change AFAIU are the displays/lenses. I could be wrong…
Given the current price-point of the Crystal, it’s hard to see avg. consumers going for the 12K with a wider FoV for over $2000.
They may want to focus on the Crystal and drop the 12K. If they can get the FoV up to 160° / 30PPD for the Crystal with special lenses, then I don’t see much of the point for the 12K, and that may just be why they may not try to provide lenses for the crystal that can provide a better FoV, as it’d start eating into the 12K’s presence rationalization.
I mean, if they can pull off a 200° FoV with teh 12K, that’s great, but… I’d prefer the above combination on the Crystal if possible.
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I’d be surprised if that sort of FOV were technically even achievable with aspheric lenses.
The fact that Crystal and 12K share so many components might be what could eventually lead to no release for the 12k.
We see a sudden but definite shift away from fresnel and apsheric lenses towards pancake. Those lenses allow for way smaller form factors (yay!) but they also require entirely different panel specs both in terms of form factor as well as peak brightness (noooo!).
From an investor perspective, I’d have a hard time investing into ‘last-gen’ technology in a market whose main-stream perception and expectation (and therefore expected revenue) will mainly be shaped by what the R&D behemoth Apple is about to show.
This showing could very possibly lead to a shift in the market away from small scale R&D budgets towards literal billions in budgets duking it out.
I think either PIMAX has to think ahead and be an innovator, or stick with solid but current/last gen designs at a reasonable price and quality for the mass consumers. I think they’re trying to balance that with the Crystal. If they could only get the Crystal’s FoV up. Index levels aren’t bad, but really, I expect more (doesn’t have to be exactly 8K levels, but at least 50% more towards the 8K for the Crystal would be nice)
Considering PIMAX’s historic velocity, I think they may have missed the boat with the 12K with the current lens/display tech. They may want to opt for a display/lens redefine for the 12K if possible.
I think if everything they promised for the Crystal works, and works well, then if they just up the FoV (like what I said above), then that’s a sweet spot device IMO.
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agreed. Because of the big delay, the time frame for the 12K shrinks…
Still I will only go with something better than 8KX, never below.
Whatever sweetspot will be defined or estimated.
Edit: seems, if PIMAX cannot deliver, we need to search for other solutions.
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thats how you do it
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Absolutely.
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“human FoV” that´s the answer for “other solutions” than PIMAX 12KX, very promising.
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I think the Crystal will rather be an outlier and Pimax will go back to super-wide FoV headsets, because that’s their niche where they have a unique selling point.
So I would assume the 12K will be their next headset, but if it will maintain the shoe box size form factor remains to be seen. We see new headsets from different sources emerging, and we can witness that the shift to a significantly smaller form factor in the entire industry is underway now. The 12K will release in 2024/2025. Can they afford to stick to the old tech approach?
Of course fitting in all the hardware besides displays & lenses will still make it a much bigger headset than the minimalist Beyond or super-condensed Apple Reality headsets are, but they could reduce it substantially nevertheless by going pancake & MicroSomething, to make it a viable option and not just something some hardcore enthusiasts are willing to put up with, but nobody else.
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Yeah but with the quadruple Pancakes tech, like in the video, you will not have to pay 3K+. That is why people are waiting while having to pay more for just big FOV, right? FOV is inflationed by the tech above and you will get 140+ HFOV for 1.5K in a year or two or even for less. Even low end like Quest may adapt it. So Pimax should better get their software and promised addons done as People will take the train on the next platform. It’s a bit like Tesla inflationed horsepower and did not allow the Germans to add 20HP all 4 years to their cars. Just something Pimax has to keep in mind. People are buying Pimax for FOV. For now.
Eventually, for sure. But in the coming 2-4 years? Don’t see it happening. Adding resolution demands more computing power, and that’s a scarce resource on stand-alone headsets. As soon as they get more of it, say through an XR3, they’ll need to carefully consider the options:
- add more FoV?
- add more PPD to make it higher resolution within the current FoV?
- maintain the resolution and FoV as is to increase the graphical quality?
To be honest, for the Quest I would argue no.3 is more important for the success of the headset, than no.2 and only when these two have been brought to a higher level would I expect a greater FoV to be considered.
This of course would change if they had eye-tracking and DFR. In that case a wider FoV would not cost significantly more compute resources, but only increase the cost of the device due to higher spec’ed components.
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I could imagine that this construct could be a good alternative for mid range headsets to offer some interesting selling point compared to the upcoming super high res headsets. Four cheap(er) panels and four cheap(er) lenses is probably less expensive than two 4k+ MicroOLED panels and lenses that can cope with this level of detail.
Hm. I could be wrong on this- but I think the 12k will not use a traditional lens construction. It’s going to be some kind of hybrid lens. Didn’t they talk about that in the video? I should re-watch it, since the 12k is the HMD I’m waiting for. I love the Crystal, but I’m hooked on the higher FOV aspect of the 8KX.
After seeing this, I’m rather concerned about the 12K at this point.
https://www.hypervision.ai/copy-of-vr240-gen2-rdk
I mean, well, if PIMAX can decrease the headset size by at least 30%, provide all features of the Crystal (working of course), AND put in lenses like the above.
Well. Whole new ballgame IMO.
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