I don’t like it but I think you are right.
I don’t get that it takes so long for the pimax 12k. It should have been released in q4 2022. As a vr company that’s doing this sinds 2014 (or 2016 I’m not really sure.) they still can’t predict when they release a new headset. When I saw the 12k presentation I couldn’t believe my eyes. I hoped that this time they deliver on time. But noo it’s just like the kickstarter 5kplus and 8k time. There was always something els that delayed it. But what can you do? Pimax is the only company that is really pushing vr technology forward. With its wide fov. I’m still rooting for pimax! I belief in them! that they could do it but I don’t like the waiting.
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There’s a reason for that. It’s hard to do it right. It’s hard to do it without eye tracking. It’s hard to do it with eye tracking. It’s expensive to do it. There’s a limited number of sales achievable. The bandwidth on HDMI or DP is required but not yet supported on 1.4.
The problem with Pimax is they don’t learn to refine their last product and make a perfect one for the next generation. They literally start afresh. When you look at Meta they refined Quest 1 then made small bumps it technology always keeping prices low and sales volumes high.
The 8kX could have been refined for an 8kX pro but Pimax abandoned it instead for Crystal.
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All the same for me, for now entire approx. 18 Months starting counting back from the AMA Stream on MRTV in March 2022 we really did not got any new information regarding the 12K. I think it will happen next year, with the release. But everything else is more speculation at that point, unfortunately. I know the waiting can get frustrating, but we all have to accept that, no other consumer based institution is really targeting any FOV above 125 degrees.
You could go the XTAL route, but the price is another dimension, 11K with taxes and shipping is very difficult to justify for the XTAL 3. If I would have the money (and plenty more as a reserve not to be completely blank) I would consider the XTAL 3, 180 degree FOV horizontally without any distortion is quiet nice.
By the way, the VRgineers are great to deal with, very nice people and they offer you a completely free of any charge Demo of the XTAL 3 in their main office in Prague, Czech Republic, if you interested in Purchasing. They will also have a booth on the AWE Show in Vienna, Austria, 24-25th October this year.
I may will look into buying a used XTAL 5K Unit, OLED coulors and deep pure blacks together with 170 degree FOV horizontally should be very nice for dark games, as I mainly play E:D with my motion sim. Price wise the used 5K units are in the 2-3K Region, a little better to handle 
Additionally, my 8KX just died a few days ago, so I need a good replacement ASAP
Unfortunately they do not have refurbished Units anymore, so you can only buy a used unit from another private user.
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so Q1 2024 for any news? Q2 Q3 Q4? this waiting time is driving me crazy
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If you ask me the 12K has to be on the drawing board again. No way it can compete as a 12k Crystal.
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why? some people are more interested on the fov side than the resolution, plus the 12k have more than double the resolution compared to the 8kx, that’s why people are waiting for this
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You will need to be patient.
I applaud Pimax for not giving us any real ETA for the 12K. In the past Pimax repeatedly made the mistake to succumb to the pressure of (their own marketing folks and) the community for an ETA, and with the Crystal they even went one step further and officially launched it while it was not going to be ready for beta tests for another couple of months and more than a year away from a true full feature launch (which till date has not been achieved, all current customers effectively are participants of an early access scheme).
Usually commercial companies only release products when all the advertised features are fully functional, and I hope Pimax is finally planning to do the same with the 12K.
The down side for us is that in the meantime we will not get much information other than the occasional glimpse of a prototype. Next stop would be the CES in January.
Don’t lash out at Pimax for not giving more information - it is still much better than having them spread vapor which then never materializes, at least not in the expected time-frame or functionality. Trust me, many of us learnt this the hard way with Pimax in the past 6 years or so.
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Sure FOV and resolution is not a problem Pimax has. Too heavy, no inside out controllers and too slow computing with old snapdragon is Pimax´ problem. That’s why it needs to go to the drawboard. Just doing a 12k Crystal will fail.
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A 12K would indeed seem difficult to be driven by the XR2+ SoC - that is, if anybody really cares about the stand-alone functionality in the 12K.
For PC VR, the onboard chip’s performance would seem to be mainly relevant for the decompression. Assuming this will have DFR as a mandatory feature given the raw resolution of the panels, I suppose the demand may at the end not be so much larger than for the Crystal?
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i fear that the fact the headset is meant to be mobile and thus requiring the battery on even in pcvr mode will affect the overall quality of the image due to the compression and decompression
would be ironic to have a 12k headset not being able to use at its full potential due to the outdated chip
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IF [sic!] the 12K is released with an XR2 SOC (@Axacuatl I am unsure but doubtful that the Crystal houses the afaik Meta Quest Pro specific XR2+ SOC) then I fully agree that it’s a hard mismatch between panel resolution and computational decode capability. In turn it would make no sense to release it with a battery or even the reuqirement for it.
I haven’t yet seen decode comparisons between the XR2, XR2+ and XR2 Gen2 regarding VD but this would be helpful to estimate just what encode capability would be required to provide a meaningful justification for a 12K with a SOC and a battery.
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Compression for VFR and decompression is one thing, the requirement for DP2 another.
Because of lack of computing power of the AMD graphics cards, the DP2 is nice, but we need it from NVIDIA. Maybe a revised GFORC 4090 “super” with DP2 could be the basis, OR 5G/WIFI7 solution I would like to see in reality.
A 12KX with stand alone mode is for sure restricted in features, but may be sufficient for certain useful applications.
By the way, for those consumer purposes, the US announced a license exception to deliver such Chips and graphic cards to China. So this could be still possible in 2024/2025… I hope so!
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CES 2024 is going to be mighty interesting.
With limited bandwidth on current display ports eye tracking is a must and probably the most important feature on the 12k as everything will rely on it. Without DFR even a 4090 with be screaming and 99.9% of PCVR users will not even consider a 12k.
The XR2 chip is a write off imo and might as well not be included in the 12k at all. Crystal already can’t function with the XR2 streaming so the 12k has no chance. Remove the XR2 chip and you can remove the battery. Remove the XR2 and you’re back to LH tracking.
The Price is a big concern. £2000+ is way above the 8kX and when you need a 4090 to go with it the all in cost is staggering. For 99% of PCVR users this is just not an option and the 12k even if it’s some wonder HMD will have limited sales.
CES 2024 won’t be limited to Pimax and other manufacturers will be knocking on the door. Crystal will be under severe pressure and Pimax will be forced to release the 12k in a rushed state. Hyper vision will be even closer to a prototype HMD than that shown last year. A 140FOV HMD could be a sweat spot between FOV and bandwidth. They’ve already said their lenses can work well with Pico4 sized panels which are relatively cheap.
Wide FOV headsets are coming to the masses.
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That‘s what I have been thinking, and occasionally saying, since I experienced the 5K+/8K. While more is obviously nice, that seemed to be a logical golden compromise between acuity and FoV with the then-current GPU capacities. Nowadays a 4090 offers significantly more capacity than what we had at the time so one could argue this could go up to a FoV of 160.
I would prefer to push the acuity to the next level and keep it at 140 though.
But unfortunately we seem to be alone in this, the industry either sticks to 90-110 or goes berzerk aiming for 200. But a DFR functional across the board of VR games & apps would brake this logic anyhow as you could push for unlimited FoV without having to sacrifice the acuity. You „just“ need very good displays & lenses.
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Back in April this year (2023) Pimax made this announcement.
We’re now in December. Q3 has gone, there’s no roadshow in Q4 and the promised demos never materialised. It’s just another case of empty promises.
At this point I’m starting to doubt the 12k will appear at CES2024. Even if it appears I doubt it will go on sale until late 2024.
The silence is defending.
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Well, I would suggest to give them credit for finally learning their lessons.
Unlike the approach they took with the Crystal, they don’t over promise anymore, and so far didn’t release an at best half baken prototype which inevitably triggers impatient “when can I buy it?” questions if it shows 1-2 neat features like the superwide FoV and resolution although perhaps all the rest is yet unpolished or even a puzzle not solved yet.
And they did say that they “planned” to show it in Q3/4 so that is already with a clear indication of not been certain it will work out.
So they missed their demo dates. And some of us are of course curious to see what they can achieve with it. But isn’t it so much better as it is now, with no meaningful information being issued by Pimax than if they did issue misleading, over optimistic statements, which weeks later are followed up by reports proving their claims where bs and the product is far from being usable to a wider variety of users? You would have the whole sh!t storm here again.
I prefer the calm we can witness now, and when they have completed the job, they should show what the 12K can and can not achieve.
As to your expectation of the 12K not being available for purchase in 2024, I agree. Definitely if you mean a feature complete product and not just some kind of early access hardware like they did it with the Crystal (which I hope they will not repeat - if they can’t get some of the features done, scrap them from the specs (they can keep them as growth goals but the marketing should focus on what the device actually can do at the day of sale).
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But Pimax committed to demos and a roadshow in April. They never cancelled or announced no news till 2024.
I’m all down for radio silence like Varjo and the XR-4. Say nothing until it’s ready for purchase or gone into mass production at the very least.
All we know is Pimax are showing the 12k at CES2023 in 4 weeks time and anything they’ve said in the last 2-3 years can be wiped clean.
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I agree with @Axacuatl. Pimax mistake always has been that they promise all kinds of things that they just can’t hold up to. Better to not promise anything at all.
Also the 12K seems like a dead fish without the Nvidia 5000 series anyway. Doesn’t make much sense to release it without that. We need that DP2.1 connector and the GPU power. Also Pimax really needs some kind of breakthrough in lens design, but that’s a whole different story.
Either way, releasing a 12K right now seems like a bad idea to me. IF they want to release a new headset, better make a revamped and improved 8K.
Either way, honestly, because of all stupid and dumb decisions Pimax has made in the past, I honestly fear for its future. Actually it amazes me they still exist. But man, who knows for how much longer … At this point I’m really not sure if we’ll ever see a Pimax 12K headset.
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Yes agreed for sale maybe late 2024. I think they will show something at ces. Even if just a full mockup running Fruit Ninja. 
As for the announcement you know those long term forecasts are not reliable. 
Agreed and AMD ATM is the only one if not mistaken using DP 2.1
Yep releasing this close to xmas would not be a good idea.
Yep not a very stable history to instill confidence. The Portal had it been true the KS was only to verify interested as it was said to be already ready to go(much like the HT was fully made and would ship with KS headsets)
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