2023...February...and...Pimax 12k when?

Really? Why does Nvidia say otherwise?

How do you get more than 8K native?

Think about it! :wink:

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@atmos So answer the question. Are they lying? Or are you suggesting the two of them are just stupid? Good grief. Let’s wait and see what happens as the Crystal rolls out and after. Now excuse me while I go learn how to block a user.

Click their name on the post. Their profile will come up. At the upper right, there will be a button that starts out saying “Normal”. Click it and select “Ignored”.

I highly recommend using this feature on these forums. There’s only a few posters that make the whole place toxic, and the administration seems unwilling to ban them. You won’t be missing anything useful by not seeing their posts.

Thanks @sargon.

You accuse others of being toxic after saying as soon as another company makes wide FOV headsets you’ll dump Pimax for being trash?

Maybe you shoud be banned @Sargon

I won’t miss your monologues that’s for sure.

That is due to the number of complaints being lower than your personal belief as people do not seem to share your perception. But some have even made complaints about some that complain and have also been advised to use the mute option as well.

For example during the Original KS we had a member whom was muted by a number of the community when they were made aware of the option. The system after x number of mutes will send the muted user and staff a notification. Was quite successful as he made changes. As of today’s date no one has since hit that threshold. The Threshold is as low as 5.

And only 1 member has made complaints that they don’t find the mute function of value due to them seeing others still interact with those they had muted.

Good eyetracking could be the answer. What I fear is when our 5k+ and 8kx are going to fail? If Pimax doesn’t get ready fast enough the 12k, we could find ourselves with a broken hmd that we can’t trade for a discount for the 12k.

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Hey @PimaxQuorra @PimaxUSA when do we get a status update on the pimax 12k?

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Think we’re suppose to get a prototype demo this month, then proper announcement at CES2024 with a release some time later.

The way the Crystal launch went I’m not optimistic. To jump from 3k panels to 6k is a massive leap and we’ve seen reports of image artefacts on the Crystal.

£2500 for a 12k prices most people out of the market with a reliance on 50 series GPUs.

There’s also the technical issue of eye tracking where Tobii may not want to invest their time and effort into, which the 12k would need for sure.

Pimax should revisit the 8kX and keep the price around the same as the Crystal. Think that would be a winner.

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why not using it the same way as its now in the crystal? you just need to know where the pupil is looking to calculate for ipd and fov rendering

might be unlikely as it brings back the dependency on valve and its not clear how long valve will produce LH stuff, might phase out when announcing the next product end 2023 or 2024
the price for the whole setup would be roughly the same as it needs $600 for controller an 2 x LH and as LH’s are mechanical there is also a lifespan
also the amount people willing to install LH is limited, cam based inside out tracking is way more convenient and its easy to change location where to use it
as nice an precise LH is it will be replaced with cam based inside out tracking and the quest pro controller show already that there is a way around the limits in controller tracking
as it needs a complete new board design and firmware development for that there might not be enough gain (money) to justify that development, the 12k seems reasonable as long as its a “byproduct” of the crystal and can use that base to build upon
(people at pimax are not stupid, they sure have and will think about a product in line with the 8kx but it needs to have profitable outlook for the future to justify the development)

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I suppose it depends on where the cameras and illuminators are placed. Wider lenses would make it more difficult. Tobii might not see 12k sale predictions worth the hassle.

When you look at the price of the 8KX it was arounf £1500, that in itself is not cheap for the mass market. So jumping to £2500 is an even bigger leap in the wrong direction imo. And those who just bought the Crystal might not then have the funds for yet another HMD 12 months later.

As for LH I think HTC will gladly continue to sell them even if Valve don’t.

Pimax have yet to have a profitable product. They’ve lost money every year in business which is why they’ve sold part of their company 3 times. I don’t see Pimax selling enough Crystals to change that and the 12k definately won’t get them there. Same goes for Meta and Varjo so I’m not just picking on Pimax.

To be smart you need a product that will turn a profit in the products life cycle. That profit needs to be big enough to fund investment into the next product. Relying on Kickstarters is good, once. Selling your business can only be done so many times. Not learning from your mistakes is a killer and over promising and under delivering is the other.

By the end of 2023 Pimax will have competition like they’ve never had before. BSB, VR-1 and XTAL4 are all looking to gain market share. Thats before we get to the Vision Pro, Index2, Aero2, Vive Focus4.

The business landscape is wild these days with speculative investment. Uber just reported profitable for the first time ever last quarter, after 8 years of losing money. I am no longer surprised at companies surviving without the numbers making sense, I could see Pimax being the same although they do have products with margin at least.

Varjo I think are likely in the black consistently as they are enterprise focused for the most part.

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The difference with Uber is there’s no product cycle. There’s no back to the drawing board every 3 years. No reinventing the wheel.

The venerability of using the XR2 platform means you’re always open to competition who get equal support from Qualcomm. Unless you are one of the two best in any given category you are doomed to failure. Pimax was the best in the wide FOV arena but it’s not the best in the AiO. Quest 2 and Pico 4 have that space. Then there’s best Aspheric HMD. Aero and Crystal have that space but soon the VR-1 will take one of those spaces squeezing one out.

So we go back to wide FOV and soon XTAL4 will be a thing followed by BSB2 and Lynx2.

Crystal has only just started its 3 year product cycle and you have to ask will it survive 3 years with so much competition in the pipeline. Will Pimax cut the product cycle to 2 years? Will Pimax run out of money before a new HMD hits the market and can Aspheric compete with pancake in the future? You can increase pancake quality but you can never shrink aspheric lenses and the quality is already maxed out.

Time to market is particularly important here. However, unfortunately when things are rushed they almost always have more issues than those that are not.
The VR space is tough, with lots of competitors and more joining regularly (it seems).

Personally, I like the AIO aspect of the Crystal. However, the more complicated you make your product the more prone to issues and the longer it takes to get the thing with all its features working with stability.
You sacrifice reputation and brand image when releasing a product with issues.
It ultimately equates to less sales, as people won’t bite, but rather wait for another product (like Deckard).

Who knows, perhaps within the next 6 months the Crystal will have less issues and have matured to a point to win the spot as a quality headset that is reliable with all the kinks worked out and all the features present and working.

This is not to say the Crystal is terrible nor saying it is not working well for those who purchased it (esp. within particular use-cases). However, to get the volumes of sales at the mass-market level, they need to have eradicated most all of their issues and build their reputation with this headset as THE ‘go to’ headset.

Plus, they can’t backtrack on things. Did they remove mention of the 2nd set of lenses one were to receive (42PPD) with the purchase price of the Crystal? AFAIK we were supposed to receive two sets of glass lenses, the 35PPD and the 42PPD. What, do we now only get one set of lenses and have to pay money for the extra one? If that’s the case, moves like this will make things worse IMO.

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Oh but they can and they have. You only get one set of lenses now. They’ve removed any mention of a second free set. Where’s No6???

Here’s how it use to look.

Not to be a Devil"s advocate. But yes they can change the content of what is included after pre-order/initial launch to regular sales. This is not that uncommon.

Initial release 2 sets of lenses included after just 1 set. Any orders prior to the change would. need to include 2 sets as described with the optional upgrade to wider fov lenses if chosen by the deadline announced. Though imagine like the DMAS bonus might get an extension as well.

Who else has done this?

We now have several unboxing videos on YT which are not true. All these YTers now need to edit or re-record a new video for truth and only mention what IS included in the box and review what you actually get.

Crystal now has audio that most YTers described as terrible. And Crystal has one set of Normal lenses which are essentially useless because most people will only use the wide lenses once they’re available.

If Pimax state a 125 Horizontal FOV with the in the box lenses surely the Wide FOV lenses are going to be even bigger right? Two different sets of lenses can’t have the same FOV right??? Pimax are literally pulling a fast one here.

Do we really need to lost companies that change contents after initial pre orders/launch?

Sometimes it is something like an included game or an accessory.

8kX originally came with the SMAS and was later changed to DMAS or KDMAS. depending on model.

Hank tracking was a bonus iirc if your pre ordered or ordered for a time just after release.

Changes to a sku is not that uncommon. Sometimes things get deleted or new things added.

Not a big deal as long as the sales ad at the time of ordering details are correct.