I am in no way knowledgeable about this, so that is why I am commenting to get info…
I don’t see how the wireless module will support the bandwidth for 4k per eye at 90FPS. I thought when wireless had been discussed before just for Gen 1 VR, that it was pretty much dismissed as unreasonable. What kind of bandwidth would that need?
You can do the estimation yourself by taking the display port speeds and interpolate them for Pimax config:
8K: 2x 25601440 resolution @ 90 FPS → theoretical display port speed 17,8 Gbit/s
8K-X: 2x 38402160 res @ 90 FPS → theoretical DP speed 39,2 Gbit/s
The wireless may use different protocol with different overhead, but these are basically the ballpark values to take into account.
Wow. Thanks. Considering this the huge leap over 802.11ac max speed even as it caps out at 7Gpbs I don’t see how this will even be possible.
The wireless would implement some sort of compression. But I’m skeptical that it would be able to handle the 8k x effectively… but I could be wrong.
Re: 4K native per eye wireless to the 8K-X of raw data, not a compressed Netflix video stream 4K movie…
Looking at the latest WiGig wireless transmission protocol of 802.11ad that has surpassed the ‘old fashioned’ 802.11ac, this can cope with 4.6Gbps max (Qualcomm 11ad chipset). On this basis of maxing out at that speed, it appears you would need 802.11ad to be around 7x faster than is currently technologically possible to then send wirless data at 32Bgps for 4K per eye for the 8K-X (4.6Gbps x 7 = 32.2 Gbps).
If so, then how many years will be until the next wireless protocol is 7 times faster than 802.11ad we all ask? Well for reference, the speed increase from 802.11ac (products launched 2012) to 802.11ad (products launched 2016) is 4 times faster. So you can comfortably say, by the time we get 32Gbps, our Pimax headsets will be outdated unless a company makes a huge technological breakthrough in the next 4 years.
NB: Even then, it also appears the internal parts within the Pimax headset (top USB-C socket for a future super-fast wireless module) wouldn’t support it as the USB-C socket on the top of the Pimax 8K would be stuck at 5-10Gbps (USB 3.1 Gen1 & Gen2), so you’d need Thunderbolt to do 40 Gbps. As far as i’m aware, the Pimax USB-C connector on the top of the headset doesn’t support Thunderbolt!
Meaning even we had a mega upgrade in wireless module capability in a few years, (once we’ve got Navi or Volta dual GPU’s for 4K per eye native) then the Pimax 8K/8K-X headset simply won’t support it anyway. Am I wrong or right? Would be nice to know.
IDEA: Maybe as 8K-X doesn’t exist yet, Pimax could kindly make the connector socket for the future wireless module, on the top of the headset, 8K-X Thunderbolt compatible?...
I believe there is a wireless solution for Vive. Vive has 21601200 resolution which is 0,7 of the resolution of 8K (25601440). So using simple estimation we should be looking at 0,7*17,8 Gbps = 12,5 Gbps for Vive. I do not know how they solved it, but hopefully they did, so maybe for 8K it would be possible as well.
Edit: Should have been, which is 0,35 of the resolution of 8K (2x 2560*1440), so even for 8K the required bandwidth is almost 3x more of what Vive needs.
Anyway, with 8K-X and current technologies we even struggle to feed the displays over the wire as two DPs are needed, plus cable length is limited, etc. So I guess chances to make it wireless in the near future are slim.
So that begs the question, what exactly will their wireless module (assuming they meet that stretch) do…
No, the pimax 8k has 225601440 input resolution. That’s 7.4M pixels. The Vive has 2160*1200 = 2.6M pixels. So there are almost 3x more input pixels. So you need 3x better technology than the TPcast, good luck with that. And then we’re not even talking about the Pimax 8k X.
TPcast already has a solution for the Vive and doesn’t operate under the restrictions you have specified check with Sweviver the Youtube content provider who has been using it extensively in his VR content, and as far as I know has only experienced some minor issue with some sound and it not supporting audio, I believe the lastest is that issue has been resolved and Pimax I’m sure has looked into this company as well for a possible solution and like everything else in VR the solution will probably come before expected.
Right. I forgot there are two displays ;). So the factor would be halved to 0,35 (vive vs pimax 8K) and the rest no longer holds. Thanks for the correction.
This is THE big question indeed. Either they’re coming up with some extremely advanced improvement over TPCast, or, more likely (in my opinion but I might be wrong), it will not support 2x1440p.
Everyone calm down, we will all be able to utilize our Wireless vouchers in 3-5 years.
LOL. But well in all seriousness, it’s a very interesting question, how is Pimax going to ‘solve’ that needed bandwidth problem. I understood that the wireless adapter is not going to be made by Pimax themselves but by an external partner. Yet, 3x more bandwith than the Tpcast, that sure sounds like a challenge. Pimax way of solving bandwith problem so far has always been just to lower the data amount (no native resolution support for example), let’s hope that’s not going to happen here. I don’t think I’d be interested in a wireless option that would only support 2x720p for example (which would be 1.8M, so at least that would be possible. 2x1080p already is 4.1M, way above the 2.6M the vive uses, that already would be a challenge)
The module will probably only support a fraction of what the 8K can support.
Maybe slightly above Rift/Vive res.
Betting the cost will be a shocker too.
ROTFL, with a URL that is extinct. Type the coupon code into a 404 html page in 2021 and get 30% off.
The wireless ‘issue’ is only for the 8K-X model pledgers (limited to 400 units) as 8K-X cannot wirelessly receive 4K per eye bandwidth from 1 or 2 Volta class GPU’s, meaning the benefits of 8K-X over the 8K model are limited to a cable (tethered connection).
This is because we can’t go higher than 4.6 Gbps wireless that TPcast uses at the moment. If you try and exceed this, the more compression you have, the more latency. In VR, latency has to be very low, so we can’t manipulate this technology realistically in the next year or so.
So on both 8K and 8K-X headsets we’re going to be stuck with a TPcast for Vive level bandwidth (comparatively small) upscaled, meaning wirelessly, the 8K-X model will be no different to the 8K model in terms of wireless picture quality.
Have you included brainwarp?
In my estimation? Not explicitly, because it does not matter. Brainwarp is a way to render the frames for opposite panels in an interleaving manner, but it does not affect the overall bandwidth which is needed to transmit those frames over the wire (or wireless).
Thank you Navi_8K for the clarification. Has Pimax officially addressed your concern on this subject, well obviously not but have they provided any information one way or another. This just adds to the confidence I have in my decision to accept the basic 8k loaner and later make a decision when these unknowns are worked out. Then we should all know what to do by the time 8kx is ready for release.
Unfortunately, the options on the table will have you questioning why you threw down for the 8K X.
Pimax has no intention of making the transition appealing.