I’m like you to want to know where is the development of 12k!
Why ?
After having tested the crystal at the raodshow in paris, seeing the extreme quality of the image, no more sweespot, rendered in 4k per eye, seeing from very very far in simulation without a porridge of pixels my brain immediately say :
-And if I had the same image on a fov like my old Pimax 5k+ (Fov 150/170) for greater immersion than the crystal fov (140)!!
Wanting more in the end in fov for a helmet that will certainly be expensive but will last a very long time for my simulation games given the 4k quality per eye, a kind of glass ceiling in visual quality and vr helmet.
In the end to stop changing vr headset every 2 years.
So question to the #Team Pimax:
-How is the development of 12k for 2023 please?
-When do you think you will sell the 12k??
I’d be surprised if they want to talk any more than they already have about the 12K.
I think they want to push and get as many sales of the Crystal as they can.
Especially since there’s no trade-up to the 12K from the Crystal.
If there were a trade-up, I personally think they may sell more Crystal units.
Some people, depending on systems and subjective preference, may actually find that the Crystal meets the bill in enough respects as to not take the trade-up path.
Those who trade up may be satisfied with the Crystal and some levels, but ultimately have less qualms to go for the 12K. They have (or will commit to buy) the best possible system and will have the use-cases to help support them to take a trade-up path.
I really think it’s in the best interest of PIMAX to work out some kind of trade-up path from the Crystal to the 12K.
I think “Trade Up” is actually a bad deal for all of us.
Last year, Pimax really wanted to get rid of the old Pimax headsets, so when they announced the new 12k and Crystal, they promised great “trade up” value for those old headsets.
Does no one really find the 5k Super trade up being too high?
Anyway, the promise was made. People came and bought those headsets. Now Pimax is facing a dilemma:
Should they really keep the trade-up promise? Really offer $800 off for anyone who bought a 5k Super?
The crap will really hit the fan when 12k is actually available. How do they even make a profit when each new headset has to be cut down $500 to $800?
From our consumer’s perspective, Pimax has to keep this promise, they have to make the trade-up, even at a loss.
From the perspective of Pimax, they cannot sell things at a loss. It’s business 101.
Therefore, the only out I can see, is that they have to raise the 12k’s price for at least $800 to make business sense.
This is bad for all of us here, especially for the ones who didn’t purchase a headset for the trade up value.
This is why I am perfectly happy with Crystal. Without the trade up program, Pimax can actually lowered its price to a point that I can afford it.
Good luck 12Kers ! You will be hit with a not-so-pleasant surprise.
Good points. Regardless, they have to make sales. Given the upcoming competition for 2023, it seems even more-so that they need these sales.
The point about why I think that ‘some kind of’ (important to interpret this) trade-up from Crystal to 12K is important is… At least they can start getting some kind of revenue in sooner. Increasing the potential appeal for those on the fence to bite for the Crystal now and either 1.) Keep the Crystal or 2.) trade-up to the 12K.
At least they’re getting money in the door and more committed sales. Personally for me, it’s more appealing to have some sort of -hopefully reasonable- trade-up option to go to the 12K. It would help me bite on the Crystal. Right now I’m on the fence about it because I want to see ultimately what the 12K will be, and there’s not enough solid information on it. Having a trade-up option makes things a bit easier for me to go for the Crystal.
I don’t speak for everyone of course, but I don’t think having customers sit on their heels and do a ‘wait and see’ approach (while other competitors come into the space with equivalent HMDs) helps PIMAX.
The ‘some kind of’ trade-up is one way they could make the Crystal more appealing and get more consumers to bite on it.
Get the money, let the product speak for itself, and hopefully that is good enough to retain customers on the Crystal and or have them commit to ‘some kind of’ trade-up to the 12K
I feel that you’re understandably negative, but Pimax has done nothing to indicate they intend to re-neg on the promise. For sure, the second they made that promise they incentivized themselves to short-change us on the 12K - But they don’t want to short-change us. Furthermore they incentivized themselves to take their sweet time to get it right - after all the 8KXs that we buy just get worth less and less by the day, (and so does the 12K frankly). That’s honestly why I’m so insistent that they give us the two assurances above - to prevent exactly such nonsense from being spread and to assure us that we won’t be let down. Pimax has done a wonderful job on the hardware side - always - in terms of quality - perhaps not temporally (delays). Please Pimax shut these concerns down!
With a perfectly executed 12K you could be there, I agree.
The growth scenario would be to even allow for full FoV with top quality clarity and resolution in wireless use mode provided they/somebody can get DFR working end2end b/c then the data throughput drops significantly and can be handled by DP1.4a.
The only real argument against a perfectly executed 12K would be the size/comfort/weight(-distribution) factor, as that will not change, even if you swap the lenses, the displays would be at the old distance, old weight, etc… But it is very likely that even in 3 years from now, any then-current high end headset may boast many improvements over the 12K’s tech, but the FoV would remain significantly lower and that may still make you prefer the 12K.
But first let Pimax execute the 12K perfectly before going any further in this discussion…
Raise your hands if you think Pimax should change the form factor of how the 12K should look compare to the past? (ALL raise hands)
Raise your hands if you think Pimax should do everything they can to make the headset lighter?
(ALL raise hands)
Raise you hands if you think Pimax should release 12K soon after the Crystal?
(ALL raise hands)
Sweviver said not likely until after summer. Given honest-to-goodness delays and leans toward quality, I think it’s reasonable to expect next December as an estimate for a soft launch. Give it til this time next year. I mean who would say a year to develop the 12k from the Crystal is unreasonable?
Uhh, a soft Pimax launch. That would mean it’s anyone’s guess as to when the headset will be shipped.
Unfortunately I am interested in seeing if they can manage to get the 12K perform decently, because the Crystal’s displays have surprised me positively. But it is a stretch, especially if we need features like eye-tracking to perform really well on a ultra-wide FoV headset if we hope for DFR to make it perform really well (although you can surely apply FFR for the fringe areas as you wouldn’t be able to view them with your fovea anyhow).
You don’t actually speak for everyone’s priorities. While smaller and lighter is always better, of course, I’m not very fussed about the size and weight of the 8KX. If the 12K is similar, that’s fine by me.
I’m more interested in improved immersion: Higher PPD, wider FOV, higher FPS, better audio, etc.
Basically every other company in VR is sacrificing these things for smaller, lighter, cheaper. And I don’t want Pimax to go that direction, too. Not unless they can do it without compromising the quality of VR immersion.
That said, smaller and lighter is surely very important to a lot of people who may find the current 8KX uncomfortable. That can be the higher priority for them, but just saying that it’s not the higher priority for everyone unanimously.
“A lot of people who may find the current 8KX uncomfortable.”
“may” you said? It is uncomfortable. Playing Half Life Alyx…holy smoke, my neck. I can feel it…the strain and heaviness. I even use something heavy to weight it down on the back…it helps but you can still feel the heaviness once you start walking around for a long time.
I’m a huge fan of those 2 products. I find them a bit expensive tbh, so only have the 1 set, but I’d love to kit out all my headsets with them. Best counterweights by far.
Edit: Actually, the best counterweight is one that is built in by the manufactuer ha. But they are best aftermarket option imo!
It will also depend on your use cases a lot - for somebody who mainly plays seated sims, like me, will have less of an issue than somebody who play fast action room scale games like FPS.
Nevertheless I would really want to see some advances in the form factor & weight (plus wireless, please - the battery can function as counterweight so is not as bad as one might think).
Let‘s see if and what Apple presents this year. That might have a great influence on product design and what is accepted by the customer base going forward.
I completely understand why the Crystal is locked into the same chassis as the 12K. My hope is that this generation of headsets is a hit and Pimax has the cash flow to divide those product lines.
A 2nd generation Crystal that keeps all the performance and visual goodness, but in a lighter and more comfortable form factor… that has potential for mainstream adoption. And there would be a reason for enthusiasts to own both a 12k (max immersion) and a Crystal 2.0 (comfort, action games).
