Virtual Desktop through-the-lens comparison (Pimax 8KX vs Valve Index)

[SweViver]

Having a cold (again) and almost no voice, but hey it wont stop me from VR lol. Spent some time last night in Virtual Desktop with the 8KX, and decided to make a comparison with Valve Index. Like night and day if you ask me. 8KX is easily the king of virtual desktop work. But hey who cares about my opinion, right?

So I made some through-the-lens photos in Virtual Desktop. Dont judge me, I really did my best. Valve Index simply dont get better in TTL, believe me. The sharpness is not there on Index once you let the camera have a closer look.

Anyway, so I used one of my 1440p monitors to mirror into Virtual Desktop, put it on 7m distance, 72% curve (for no reason), and made various TTL photos with Screen Sizes 150, 130, 110, 90, 70 and 50.
Basically, for each step, the virtual desktop gets smaller.

All photos taken from exactly the same distance (fixed distance) of course, with both headsets.
Shot with GH5, 12mm (24mm full frame equivalent) so no macro here. Same settings on all photos.

You should download the images in full size!

I will leave the opinions up to you, but all I can say is that when using the 8KX, I can clearly read the text under the desktop icons down to screen size 60 or maybe 55. With screen size around 50 and lower, its just getting too shimmery.

Remember its a 1440p monitor Im mirroring in Virtual Desktop, so if you want to try on your own with any headset to get an idea, you need to use a 1440p resolution on your virtual desktop.

The focus point is the “Revive Dashboard” icon and text.

Let me know what you think!

[SweViver]

By the way, using SS x2.4 in Virtual Desktop.

As you see in the photos, Valve Index is supersampled to roughly 3800pix horizontally to make it a fair game.

And the reason why Im using PiTool 1.5 and decreaded SS is because it actually looks better in VD compared to PiTool 1.0 and SS 100%. Was not expecting that.

[twack3r]

@SweViver

And the reason why Im using PiTool 1.5 and decreaded SS is because it actually looks better in VD compared to PiTool 1.0 and SS 100%. Was not expecting that.

Thanks for this!

@mirage335 also commented that a higher PiTool setting with a lower Steam SS value produced a higher IQ than vice versa. This is very interesting.

[SweViver]

@twack3r

@mirage335 also commented that a higher PiTool setting with a lower Steam SS value produced a higher IQ than vice versa. This is very interesting.

Also in games. Although NOT when parallel projection is used, as far as i can tell. Aerofly FS2 looks way sharper at PiTool 1.0 and SS100 compared to PiTool 1.5 with lower SS matching the same resolution.

[twack3r]

Do you see any difference on GPU load between say PiTool 1.5 and SS100% vs PiTool 1.0 and SS150%?

I would love to know where that increased IQ in the rendering pipeline comes from. Could be a more efficient approach, could also be a higher GPU utilization. Now such thing as free gains after all

[SweViver]

Actually it looks like running PiTool 1.5 and lower SS gives a bit lower frame times than PiTool 1.0 and SS 100% (having more or less same resolution on both in SteamVR). But I must do more test to really make a statement about this.

[twack3r]

That would be great!

Maybe the engineers at Pimax would be able to provide you with some detailed technical specs on PiTool itself, which should be happening anyway once it gets fully opened to OpenSource. That way you could do something similar to Valve‘s ‚deep dives‘.

If it can be shown that what you stated above holds true, then there is an actual merit to using PiTool beyond PP and various adjustments.

[SweViver]

A comparison of the images side-by-side (look at the Revive-dashboard icon and text)

Screen Size 150

Screen Size 130

Screen Size 110

Screen Size 90

Screen Size 70

Screen Size 50

[SweViver]

@twack3r

That would be great!

Maybe the engineers at Pimax would be able to provide you with some detailed technical specs on PiTool itself, which should be happening anyway once it gets fully opened to OpenSource. That way you could do something similar to Valve‘s ‚deep dives‘.

If it can be shown that what you stated above holds true, then there is an actual merit to using PiTool beyond PP and various adjustments.

Yep, I have a long list of things to discuss with them when they get back to the office

I think there is still a lot of room for improvement and optimization. Running PiTool 1.5 and SS 100% looks crazy sharp. Not playable with much games, but it DOES make a difference.

[vorinami]

hi Martin!
well actually there are still MANY (i would claim the vast majority) of us that still care about your opinion and testingA LOT - as we slways did! so keep testing and posting but first take care of yourself and get well soon! And THX for this great and profound comparison!

[jojon]

@SweViver

Actually it looks like running PiTool 1.5 and lower SS gives a bit lower frame times than PiTool 1.0 and SS 100% (having more or less same resolution on both in SteamVR). But I must do more test to really make a statement about this.

You could try opening the SteamVR frame timing graph, and see whether there is any immediately obvious difference in the thickness of the Compositor stratum.

[risa2000]

@twack3r

Do you see any difference on GPU load between say PiTool 1.5 and SS100% vs PiTool 1.0 and SS150%?

Actually PiTool at 1.5 and SS at 100% should give higher res than PiTool at 1.0 and SS at 150%, because one factors dimensions, the other the pixel count. The correct comparison would be with having the two setups both giving roughly the same target res, (what I believe @SweViver actually did).

[mirage335]

AeroFly FS2 is one of the next things on my list to optimize for the 8kX. Thank you for providing the data point on parallel projections.

Because I have seen blurring on both ends - lack of PiTool >1.0 and in-app supersampling >1.0 - I tend to set both to something like 1.25 if CPU/GPU allows.

EDIT: By the way…
PiTool at 1.25 and SteamVR at something like 100%, vs PiTool 1.00 and SteamVR at 125%, with VirtualDesktop supersampling very high, is the best demonstration that a blur filter is in place.

[McUH]

@SweViver

But hey who cares about my opinion, right?

Come on. Your videos are great btw. Mentioning you work for Pimax is fair and welcome, but accusing your viewers in all videos they don’t trust you is just childish and unnecessary.

[mirage335]

Obviously, this was just a carefree statement made partly in jest. No need to push buttons.

[mintus55]

there’s not a huge difference between the two

[acegamer]

Looks like a pretty good difference between them to me

[mirage335]

Look closely, and imagine how this would actually look in the headset.

Valve Index, 150deg

• Character ‘e’ in Revive, is blurred enough to almost look like a ‘c’.
• Edges of text clearly show distinct RGB ‘sparkles’.

Pimax 8kX, 150deg

• Character ‘e’ is immediately distinguishable with all features preserved.
• Edges of text show no sparkles.

Valve Index, 90deg

• Requires extra time and context to read.

Pimax 8kX, 90deg

• Quickly readable, all characters are distinctly very different, although ‘e’ and ‘a’ lose some features.

Not shown, I would expect to see rainbow RGB patterns with certain ‘flowchart’ type graphics and the Valve Index at full sharpness.

Both headsets are usable, just as the old Pimax 5k+ is usable, but the Pimax Vision 8kX is going to cause much less eyestrain and general fatigue.

Moire patterns are due to camera artifacts, and do not appear to the human eye.

[mintus55]

all of this could be down to bad camera placement

[mirage335]

It is not. I experience exactly the same effects in the 8kX.