Some thoughts on Pimax 5K XR & comparison to Vive Pro

I’ve had the Rift DK1, DK2, CV1, OG Vive and finally Vive Pro. I was in a pretty happy place with Vive Pro and wireless, so Pimax was more of an exploration.

First got the 5K+ to see if I could learn to be happy with LCD black-levels with brightness/contrast tweaking, and learned that I could not. Sadly, AFAIK ALL currently announced new HMDs are LCD :frowning: I’ll snap up the next high-resolution OLED that shows up, but meanwhile, there’s this XR thing…

FOV: You already know this is pretty great. I use normal mode and can deal with any distortion. Requires parallel projection sometimes, but no way around that. I hated the perspective distortion when playing on triple-wide monitors in the before-time, so I’m happy to see Pimax tackling this issue in software. Same goes for 5K+.

I find myself placing the HMD higher up on my face for the least distortion, which reduces the vertical FOV compared to the Vive Pro. But even the small horizontal FOV is noticeably better than the Vive Pro.

Comfort: Couldn’t get it to sit right on my face without the 3D printed addon and Vive DAS (and Vive aftermarket face cushion). That’s not just a comfort issue - you also have very few physical options to manage distortion and sweetspot otherwise. I’d say this is a must-have.

Light weight is a plus, especially compared to Vive Pro + wireless antenna + battery pack all on my head. I often use the (modded) XR long enough for my controllers batteries to die, so that should tell you something about comfort. All this goes for 5K+ too.

Light-bleed around the nose area is an issue. I play with the lights off or use a cut-up Vive face mask to block it.

Blacks/Colors: Kicks 5K+ butt. I prefer it to the Vive Pro actually. IMO the Vive looks a bit over-saturated with contrast too high, whereas a lot of things can be adjusted on the XR. Black smear & mura feels like a side-grade to the Vive Pro, which is good enough for me. I play a lot of dark moody games, so this is a big factor. Looking forward to being able to adjust black levels with the new PiTool, but even without that I’m fine with things the way they are.

Lenses: I didn’t do the Gear VR lens mod on my Vive Pro, but did do it on the OG Vive. The XR lenses are similar in clarity to the modded lenses, maybe a tiny bit worse, but with much larger FOV. I’ll take that.

Screendoor: Yes, IMO worse than Vive Pro and made worse with higher resolution required in general (harder to oversample and minimize aliasing). But noticeably better than OG Vive. Coupled with the clearer lenses, I consider this a side-grade or slight upgrade to Vive Pro overall. 5K+ is very clearly better than both in this regard. Pity it’s an LCD.

Stereo Overlap: Spent a lot of time fussing over this and was worried about other people complaining about it before I got the XR . After some testing, I feel that over the same FOV as the Vive Pro, the stereo overlap is similar.

But the real secret is to play with the IPD dial and IPD offset in software. To put this in perspective: I OBSESSED over 3D Vision setups. I have 3 separate triple-wide 3D vision surround setups and 2 projector setups. If there isn’t a Helix-mod for a non-VR game, I’m probably not going to play it. As any 3D Vision fan will tell you: playing with depth AND convergence is key.

The IPD dial/software offset isn’t exactly the same, but it sort of gives you that kind of control over depth and world-scale. This is impossible on any other HMD as far as I know, and this fact alone is worth the price of admission for me. I didn’t even know about it when I bought the XR. I’d really like to understand better how the software IPD and IPD dial differ geometrically. Right now this is based on my visual experience.

Other stuff:

  • Had a black-level mismatch between eyes. Pitool support experience felt a bit unprofessional but was effective. I’ve had much worse.
  • I run a pretty big 5m x 5m setup with 4 Steam VR 2.0 lighthouses. My Vive Pro was wireless. The default cord length of the XR/5K+ can’t keep up, but with a few additions, it can (https://community.openmr.ai/t/cable-extension/11603/59).
  • Pairing with lighthouses is slow. Sometimes you have to walk around the room with the headset to get it to see all the lighthouses. Sometimes you set it on the floor and make coffee.
    It eventually sees them though, even if only 2 lighthouses show up in PiTool, all 4 of mine are seen in Steam VR. After that, it’ll stay seen for the gaming session. Just got to do that ritual and please the VR gods first.
  • Pairing with Index controller or even Vive wands is iffy. Again, once you figure out the right ritual it’s possible to get right and have it work reliably during a gaming session.
    But heaven help you if you take a break and something goes into sleep mode: be prepared to restart your game, Steam VR, PiTool and/or the service. Sometimes the controllers pair up again fine, but have issues (invisible controllers/positioned infinitely far away, jumpy tracking of buttons, etc.).
  • I found the highest backlight brightness to be unusable due to reflections. I’m fine with the middle setting - it’s a bit less bright than the Vive Pro but I consider that a plus.
  • The Pimax service is always running, even when not using VR. Wish they figured out a way to not do that. You can stop it manually of course.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

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sadly exactly my sentiment will try the new Samsung VR headset if it’s using Oled panels

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Grimulkan, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

On my 8K, I’ve found that I prefer to have backlight brightness on low (and have brightness set to -1 and contrast at +1. I mostly play Elite Dangerous (so I’ve optimized for that), but Assetto Corsa looks good, in terms of brightness and colors. The resolution isn’t there yet, imo.

What I really want is the 8K-X or subsequent model, with 4K full-RGB panels and wide FOV. I’d be OK, if Pimax dropped 170° FOV (and maxed out at “Normal” 150°) to increase the pixel pitch (pixels per inch/cm), In fact, I’d prefer that. (It seems highly unlikely that Pixel would release something like that, but others might.)

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Totally agree on dropping max FOV a bit and increasing usable pixel density. Maybe even doable with the existing XR panel and a redesign of everything else.

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For black levels on the 5K+ LCD, I did try various backlight levels as well as brightness/contrast adjustments. I even set up a mod in Skyrim to change color tints, saturation, brightness and contrast with voice commands, so I could live-tweak various scenes. This vastly improved the image, but didn’t cut it for me and I kept going back to the Vive Pro.

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It seems the 2.0 basestations have issues with pimax. My headset get tracked right away and the index controllers works perfectly. Im using the 1.0 BS

Just need either an RGB oled or maybe a 5k+ with Razer Phone’s Igloo LCD QHD 120hz with hdr. Might do the trick for goid lcd screens.

This is ringing a bell. I have a smaller 1.0 setup on the side and I don’t remember having issues on that one.

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Strangely though don’t remember @Sjef mentioning having problems. Sj isn’t your vive pro have v2.0 lighthouses?

Though recent changes to LH v2.0 firmware may have introduced new issues.

There were a few post about 2.0 LH tracking issues

But not that I recall from Vive Pro owners that may have v2.0 controllers & LHes.

I am certain if Sj had an issue getting his Vive Pro LHes & Controllers working he would have mentioned it.

I have 1 Index (2.0) LH and 2 Index controllers. My setup is clean Win 10 install for Pimax 8K and general gaming only (Win10, Pimax S/W, Steam, SteamVR, Oculus S/W, Revive). LH is installed 2.5m above and ~ 2.5 - 3 m from the headset diagonally. Never had any issues with tracking in SkyrimVR, but had some in Call of the Starseed, but I’m not sure if it was headset or controllers (had even two “TRACKING LOST” messages in one time, but the game was working if I moved headset or moved the controlllers)

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I should clarify that I have Valve 2.0 LHs, not HTC (not that it matters, they’re the same AFAIK). Secondly, I don’t have tracking issues exactly, since I can get many hours of solid use out of it often, but sometimes right starting a session the tracking and button triggering is wonkey (repeated attempts after restarting can get it to work). I have this issue with Vive Pro 2.0 wands too (when used with Pimax).

This was the case on 2 separate dedicated VR machines. The Vive Pro has none of these issues on the same machines, even when I’m running the Pimax wrapper in the background. I haven’t broght this up with Pimax support because I just fix it with a restart or so. It’s annoying, but not a showstopper.

Finally, my comments about my LH 1.0 setup not having issues are probably not fair, because I haven’t used that setup for at least 2 PiTool versions. But never had these issues with Vive 1.0 wands back then. A lot of what I’m describing could be related to software changes in the current Pitool to handle Index controller functionality, I have no way of knowing. I also use OpenVR.

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  • I had problems with the stereo overlap, because a) I couldn’t use the 5k XR without an additional face cushion, and b) my IPD is lower than the physical minimum IPD of 60. I now use a thinner face cushion (on top of the original), and it’s better now.
  • I have no problems with Vive wands not pairing.
  • I only had slight issues with pairing to the lighthouses. It works 90% of the time. If not it works after a reboot.
  • During game play there are rarely problems, one was slow performance (stuttering) after 2+ hours, but this could also be a SteamVR issue and actually didn’t happen for some time.
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Do you use 2.0 tracking?

I still have issues with the controllers (if anything, it is worse in PiTool 180). It is not a pairing problem, I shouldn’t have called it that.

The button presses sometimes don’t register and the tracking is wonkey (controllers in game don’t stay stationary). I think I see them flickering on and off and it makes me think the controllers are constantly being connected and disconnected. If you don’t see an issue, maybe something else is going on on my end.

One nice thing about PiTool 180 is that all 4 base stations now show up in PiTool (previously, it was hard-coded to only show 2).

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Question then: I have an original 5K+. Is it worth upgrading to the XR if I play games like Elite? It’s 1000bux-ish on Amazon.com right now. I can afford that and I’d likely sell my current 5K+ for a few hundred. I mainly want better black levels

I’m not a big Elite player, but from screenshots it seems like there a lot of dark scenes. The XR absolutely makes a difference in black levels, but comes at the cost of some screendoor.

If you meant 1000 USD, you should be able to get it new for much cheaper.

FYI
If you boot the pro in non direct mode you can alter the display brighness/contrast etc
which sticks when you re-enable direct mode.

Also it’s easy to appy software ipd offsets to the vice pro

Go to internet browser when headset running qwith steam vr
http://localhost:8998/console/index.html
then input
settings steamvr.ipdOffset scalehereInMeters

“settings steamvr.ipdOffset -.0015” ( minus 1.5mm )
“settings steamvr.ipdOffset .001” ( plus 1mm )

Reboot to apply

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