In an 8-year-old VR headset the dust will be all around
1 Like
If you know Bradley you could expect this kind of review. Is he harsh? A bit, sure. But I had to laugh when I saw the outcry here - how dare he point out that Pimax launched a product which is still missing more than half of its major features 6 weeks later, which means its still quite some way from actually launching as a product compliant with its own specs. How dare he state that Pimax sell prototypes which are further developed as time goes by and while you see your product from a year ago and the current one share the same name, you wonder why certain newly unlocked features won‘t work on your device but only on the newer ones.
I am sorry guys, he is benchmarking Pimax products with proper commercial products of competitors, and in that world Pimax are not up to par with the state of their product 6 weeks after the so-called launch, if you like it or not. Frankly, I largely concur with his findings and his conclusion - currently there is no product, just a prototype.
He did mention that due to its great visuals it‘s a viable product for simmers as you don‘t need stand-alone or controllers in that case and the old school form factor may not matter to these that much.
The only thing I‘d single out is that he got hung up too much on the exchangeable lenses point; but I believe that there is little value in the actual offering of the 35 vs. 42 PPD lenses because the clarity is already good enough with 35 PPD and I wouldn‘t bother to swap them - they are just not that far apart, are they, I expect the experience to be pretty comparable. But I surely wouldn‘t go as far as wildly praising them for it either - there is a risk of lesser quality due to achieving only lower tolerances due to this swapping mechanism.
Tinkerers love Pimax products. But please, please don‘t assume that these are representative for the VR consumer market. They are not. Regular VR users are definitely not looking for devices they have to tinker with extensively until they work somewhat as expected, albeit that this also allows for even more tinkering to make them exactly as you want them. That‘s the same story as with PC users - these folks exist, they OC the hell out of their systems, but they are not representative for PC gamers.
2 Likes
So the solution is to just be OK with a device you spent as much as you would on a new TV barely lasting for eight years? That’s good value to you?
Do you know that if they have an optical coating on the headset that it too is a failure point in a sealed device also right?
The fact that you have access to it means that if you want to fix it, if Something Happens, you don’t have to RMA the thing back to the factory at your own cost and be without your headset for weeks.
Has nobody on this board ever owned a camera before? Like a really expensive one?
2 Likes
The lense thing is just finding things to complain about jesus christ. How is having options a bad thing, unless including those options requires a significant increase in cost to accommodate or there is a very poor out of the box experience that requires tinkering with those functions to be ideal, i.e the Pimax software and color calibration as an example. However, even then you can still fix the problem exactly because it’s adjustable, not something you can do on other HMDs.
Lenses are a fragile thing and being able to swap them out is neat because you could get one which is tailored to a specific prescription for those that need glasses, some people already buy custom lenses, or you can easily switch it out without needing to exchange the entire headset if they end up damaged. You have an old headset which is out of warranty but the lenses get scratched? Tough luck, buy a completely new one. They have the protective layer beneath the lenses to avoid dust getting on the actual screen itself, which’d be a muuuuuuch harder thing to fix anyway.
It’s making a mountain out of a molehill to complain about it for several minutes. It’s not some revolutionary feature that’ll CHANGE VR FOREVER or whatever, but it’s a neat little thing and hardly some big issue. Bradly’s just being his usual biased self, like @VRGIMP27 has already well pointed out. Honestly think it’s a poor review in most respects and he already went in with his mind made up. Doesn’t make every point he raised invalid either, but this wasn’t good.
And despite that, fully expect another video talking about the Deckard like it’s the second coming of Christ in a few months when it’s still all just patents, despite how harsh Bradly’s being on Pimax about having not finalized stuff here.
4 Likes
The problem that I have with the criticism of the 42 PPD lens is that he craps on it while admitting he hasn’t even tried it. If you won’t try, the opinion that it sucks, is less than useless because you don’t actually know.
If he tried it and said “Meh it didn’t add much” then that would be fine. But having such a strong opinion that you use your platform. To criticize the company when you haven’t even tried it. It’s just silly.
4 Likes
It’s hilarious to me that in the review he didn’t notice anything visual was wrong with the device. He lauded it, until he got a DM afterwards saying that the lenses weren’t properly aligned.
The guy’s own eyes couldn’t tell him there was a problem. And then “chefs kiss’ when he bitches about the feature that is the only means he would possibly have as a consumer to fix it for himself.
Hell, Sebastian pointed out a focus issue he was having with it in his first impressions. All they needed to do to fix. it was a small modification to the magnetic gasket as a temporary fix.
He was ready to send the headset back to the drawing board if that couldn’t be fixed. The lemmings were out in full force, afraid that the headset would be delayed.
Because of the exchangeable lens system they had a temporary fix in a day. extrapolate the issue that Sebastian had to a launch day issue when you as a pimax customer have some issue like that. Do you want to RMA your device and send it away? Or would you rather be able to fix it yourself?
Blows my mind that people have enough cash that they are willing to spend almost 2 grand, throw a product away after less than 10 years, and be willing to RMA a product for something as simple as dust. Jesus Christ humanity is screwed if this is the standards, people hold
3 Likes
Well, I didn‘t try it either - they didn‘t have it yet (more precisely, apparently the hardware was available, but they lacked the distortion profiles).
I would understand your criticism if he had said the visuals to be lacking in some respect where these 42 PPD lenses could have potentially righted the ship. But frankly I don‘t really remember such point. His issue was rather that he considers it to be introducing a potential point of weakness without much gain - which I second because the two sets do not appear to be different enough. For the 12K it might make much more sense if it provides for a 200 degree set and say, a 140 degree set. But for the Crystal? Not convinced. In my view this is the result of the desire to be able to state „we offer 42 PPD“ purely for marketing purposes, losing sight of what the added value for the customer here truly will be.
2 Likes
Yes, a gamer will not benefit from the 42ppd lenses, but people who want to do desktop work with them, designers, science etc. will be grateful. For the masses, the lenses are only a good solution for watching a film from time to time. Even if the HMD built a bit too big for that.
Don’t get upset, it’s his opinion, according to his personal needs.
4 Likes
Well, that will be a really small niche within the niche. Really only designers, not the regular pro user looking for a device to use for desktop work - far too bulky for such users. Those are looking for lightweight Quest Pro like (but better!) devices.
1 Like
At a guess? Qualcomm already has over a year of research into making an XR2 Nintendo switch inspired handheld. Sadly might have known something like this had he used google. So my guess is since Qualcomm didn’t release it this year as projected they used there partnership with pimax to bring it forward.
It is unfortunate he seems as others have said he went in with a pre opinion. Does he have some valid points like History? Sure.
However it is interesting others whom have shared there impression of the Portal has been quite positive.
His lack of understanding the benefits of interchangeable lenses is quite remarkable. I imagine he never tried the GearVR lens swap on the Vive pro was it?
I have taken apart my p4k with having cats and not had a problem with dust or hair and have popped out the 8k’s lense. A can of air does wonders for clearing things. Camera’s have had interchangeable lenses. Plus easy to replace lenses if damaged has been a wishlist of VR experience centers. An hmd with a scratched lense is a no go.
Has Meta and Pico not used Qualcomm based controllers and tracking?
2 Likes
@Axacuatl I like the idea of holding a piece of paper in a virtual conference and still being able to read it. But ok, for me the 100+/- FOV is nothing anyway.
2 Likes
Nah we had this discussion during the KS as SJ and I both said a can of air does wonders. Do you recall his pimax lense mod?
He pointed to exchangeable lenses as a weak point when we have already seen directly that such a system was useful for an issue they were having at the roadshow when Sebastian tried it.
If there is dust on the screen, I can use compressed air to get rid of it. If a lens breaks in shipping, I don’t have to send the whole headset away. If it’s out of focus, I can modify the gasket.
If it’s outside of the warranty and a lens is damaged. I can get it replaced either by pimax or a third-party.
2 Likes
He does have a point on clarity with the size of the hmd might be encumber some much like has been a complaint with the Xtal and there previous RoboVR 1 and 2 models.
If you can read with high clarity at 35ppd then yes some may not see any benefit to reducing the FoV in a large hmd that is closer to the Aero FoV. It might be a bit larger. But may not be good long prolonged use as say an office device.
However I think many hard core simmers and even other high detail game environments may indeed appreciate the even higher close to human vision clarity a boon.
I can also see VR Artists also really appreciating the higher clarity as often Artists do pay a lot of attention to fine details that are lost with lower ppd.
1 Like
I think his point was to simply make a headset with the larger FOV lenses only. He didn’t think there was any reason for low FOV with such great visuals
He also made a good point about the tracking system used. It’s a pity lighthouse wont be available on lunch
1 Like
Think about it this way though. Oculus quest pro is being billed as an enterprise device. It costs as much as a pimax crystal. If something happens to the fancy pancake lenses in the quest, pro, whoever bought them as an enterprise. Customer is going to have to buy a whole new HMD.
Gamers will benefit from 42 ppd. If you use shooters in VR, if you enjoy VR desktop.
I think a lot of people are mistaking the crystal as a game device, but at that price point and based on its direct competitors, it’s a pro Sumer/enterprise device. In that vein, it is extremely smart to go the way they are going
Being an enterprise hmd it will likely have high level of support with specialized extra warranty options. However this is a cost of downtime.
During the original KS folks running VR experience centers are indeed interested in easy swappable lenses to not have lost revenue due to an hmd having compromised lenses.
4 Likes
This is the first time I have ever watched one of his videos so if being generally insufferable and biased and negative is his shtick then I do not have any interest in any more of his “reviews”
His perceived biases overshadow whatever legitimate critiques he might have been trying to make.
4 Likes
It has a lighthouse tracking plate accessory that will be available.
The other thing is, there is nothing stopping pimax to my knowledge from releasing a set of lenses tailored towards what was essentially the “normal FOV”!setting on the 8KX. Crystal has the same density of sub pixels as the old headset did. Lest we forget the crystal is also in a 12 K chassis. They very easily could make higher field of view lenses, i’m sure. Maybe when they’re out of stock of the 8KX.
Variable field of view was initially added to 8KX as a kind of a stopgap measure, because no video card could run well at the largest setting.
With the way the piMax Crystal is set up the company could create a set of lenses for say 25 pixels per degree at 155° diagonal what essentially was normal on the old device.
They now have complete control over the distortion profile and the lenses. That means, you could make a lens for really low FOV and high clarity or very wide FOV with less clarity.
I remember when the 4K first went out, and Pimax had to RMA units for flaws with the lenses, or because of debris.
Now that doesn’t have to be a problem. Now that doesn’t have to be a problem. It’s why I suggested it in the first place all the way back in 2017. I think we have a case of “gamer mad” with this rebirw
3 Likes