Pimax Pre-order policy discussion

Pimax Hardware Pimax Discussion
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Split topic originally from https://community.openmr.ai/t/starvr-one-vs-pimax-8k-x-vs-others/28141/72 ~dmel642

Also the first post of this thread by SweViver is funny because ‘does it really matter?’ when the StarVR has put their headset into customers hands while Pimax has taken money for the 8KX from backers 2+ years ago and they are still waiting, and from preorder customers for more than half a year.

That’s the biggest issue really.

Compared to StarVR customers, 8KX customers have zero resolution right now cause they have no screen to look at. So StarVR wins in resolution for customers as of today.

I guess this post was split into its own thread which took the first post out of context, but from just clicking on this thread this was my first reaction.

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I never started the thread. That post I made was a reply to another thread. I dunno how it ended up here in the top :slight_smile:

Pimax took money because it was necessary to be able afford developing and producing the 8KX. As a result, what we have today is a final product, with a better MAS than planned, 2 factories and a full-scale production line which undoubtedly will bring out thousands of 8KX units to customers before this year ends.

Regarding StarVR, no they haven’t put headsets in hands of customers. I was first in line with hundreds of others to pay 3200 but they said nope. Why? Because these StarVR units doesn’t exist yet. And no mass production is started. They hand pick a few developers and send their samples to them.

Its kinda like the case was with 8KX last summer. We had hand-assembled samples for demo and roadshows. The difference is we never sold these units. We took money to bring you final units. We took the money and invested into a full scale production line, which today is rolling.

What StarVR have brought until now is a batch of in-progress dev kits or demo units, more or less individually assembled by hand, hence the price. Its not the panels or lenses that costs 3200usd, its the price you pay having a super low quantity of parts and an entire team that puts these pieces together, mainly by hand. Thats the same story for XTAL. Headsets made upon request.

And if StarVR does in fact individually and manually pair lenses with panels to obtain optimal distortion profiles, this will never become a full scale production product. And IF they go this line for mass production, the price of the StarVR retail unit will be even higher than today.

Pimax goal has always been to make a full scale production line to fulfill huge amounts of orders and still keep the price down. A profitable and seamless way of eventually bringing a high-end product to the masses, not hand picked devs, companies or advertisers.

You gotta see the big picture here.

I bet my left kidney that what StarVR is mainly doing, is currently investigating the actual demand for a 3K+ USD high end headset. Fill in their form to buy (whenever thant might happen) and you will increase the potential demand. Once they have a sufficient demand, they might or might not go full-scale production. Maybe this year, maybe next year or later on. Im sure they could succceed, but I bet that will require time, and they need to cut the costs of parts, use/build their own factories and make the whole production line as automated as possible. If they dont, StarVR will forever be a low-quantity premium product for the VIP customers, kinda XTAL style.

Mark my words, unless Acer or any huge company jumps in with cash, the day StarVR decides going for full scale production aimed for the masses, they will take your money and you will kindly be asked to wait. Until then, they will keep sending samples do hand picked undividuals. The rest of the crowd will have zero resolution with nothing to wait for.

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Yeah, I thought so as I noted at the bottom of my post, was just kidding a bit :smiley:

The difference is they waited until the headset was ready before taking anyone’s money. And at least one StarVR customer has received the headset in this forum.

I agree with the rest of your post .

I’m just saying that yeah Pimax has made an amazing headset with the 8KX and StarVR currently can’t compete but at least StarVR hasn’t took people’s money for half a year with no firm date given when people would receive the product.

Even now there is no firm date from Pimax of when we will get it, or even when the Pimax Now event where we might know when we will get it will come.

Anyways, I’m just whining and whatever happens I’m sure I’ll love the 8KX when I get it whenever that will be.

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Good to know. I mean the picture is good but I was wondering why this thread has such click-bait name when there is nothing on star-vr in the first post.

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I get your point, but “Being ready” by definition can mean a lot of things. Being ready to be mass produced? Being ready from e technical point of view? Being ready to be sent out in quantities to customers?

Pimax could probably have sold and sent a few dozens of 8KX in-house samples already back in September 2019, because they actually existed back then. But due to the fact we have 400 backers in front line, upgrade users and thousands of order users who already paid, which all of them wants the same device without changes inbetween batches, I guess its better to “be ready” once mass production has started and we know we can meet the demand.

Selling a few dozens of dev kits, like StarVR does, is just a marketing strategy and a measurement of demand for investors, before the real mass production phase even can be planned and paid. And then executed, which all requires time and huge efforts - unless you have huge pockets like Valve has, thanks to basically unlimited profits from Steam.

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What leads you to believe the StarVR is ready? It has no audio solution, limited compatibility (all sorts of issues with popular titles like Beat Saber and Alyx etc.), obvious manufacturing abnormalities (potential differences between samples etc.), low resolution panels and a very small number of hand picked recipients.

Also their design will require a huge effort with developers and internal development to gain (and maintain) compatibility. These are all questions we grappled with in early 2019. We actually changed our design over the compatibility issue because the level of driver support would have been very high with the previous version.

Where they are seems very familiar to what was going on 1.5 years ago or so to me.

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His point is you shouldn’t have taken people’s money for the 8K X when it was actually months (years for kickstarter backers) away from being released instead of the promised weeks out. StarVR didn’t open up ordering until what was promised was actually available.

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You’ve confirmed what I had always suspected for several months now but was afraid of saying on this forum. That the pre-order money was indeed used to fund the 8K-X development.

So basically, it was a kickstarter and not a pre-order. That would have been fine if Pimax had said that to us upfront in Oct/Nov. We would have definitely have had different expectations. Instead Pimax intentionally misled people and that is unethical.

I hope next time Pimax announces a new product, they will be more honest with us from the start.

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So you are stating that the 8kX are stated for the end of the year, meaning nothing for the summer?

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I figure China concept of lying may be different than our concept of lying?

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He said nothing of the sort. He says the population of X owners will be in the thousands by the end of the year which is absolutely true. As our flagship headset I would guess it will be in the tens of thousands at that time.

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OK thanks for the clarification. That is more reassuring then.

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What I’m excited about is that this summer we’ll have a population of people out there who have the “ultimate” version of the X with the DMAS, Eye Tracking and Hand Tracking all equipped with Index controllers and base stations.

They’ll also have options to customize the “fit” with variations of the pads on the CK and later the MAS itself.

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I have not purchased the Eyetracking for the 8kX. will that solve the distortion? If so, can I purchase that option before mine is shipped?

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From their perspective, I can understand why they did it.

If they had told us back in November that they are doing a kickstarter on their website for the 8K-X and told us an estimated delivery date of June/July, less people would have “pre-ordered” and they might not have reached enough funding to get to this stage. Trust would’ve been low due to their kickstarter history.

On the other hand, people like me would have probably ordered the 8K Plus instead, enjoyed that for 8 months and then ordered the 8K-X when it was ready. So if Pimax had been honest from the start, they might have actually made more money in the long term due to people ordering BOTH headsets. And it would’ve created better trust & reputation among the wider VR community.

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If I knew it was going to take until ‘summer’ for you to even start shipping the 8kx I never would have preordered the damn thing. I wont be here for ‘summer’ or winter for that matter. These delays have caused me to miss the boat entirely.

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What are you talking about?

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I leave in July for a deployment to the middle east, wont be back until 2021. I was hoping in November I’d have plenty of time for the 8kx but again I was wrong.

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I am moving to another apartment in July, I hope they ship them before then

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So this is what Pimax has done with 8K backers’ money that should have been used to make and send them the promised KS free items:

pimax free items
pimax free items492×720 64.3 KB

  • additionnal face cushion: Pimax has never sent it and will certainly never send it to backers

  • rigid headstrap with OVER THE EARS earphones: this was gimped down to a crappy speakers solution, so backers will never receive the initially promised rigid strap (more money to invest into 8KX…)

  • prescription VR frame + cooling fan: backers have and certainly will never receive these.

  • wireless trnasmission: development seems completely abandonned too, at least it is never mentioned in the “recent” weekly updates.

  • 3 pieces of content: many backers never received them (seems “some” did…).

  • eye tracking: that one was upgraded to a 2 eyes version at the cost of additionnal fee asked to backers. This move is half “forgivable”: on one side it was a good decision to ugrade it to 2 eyes, on the other side KS was promising “an eye tracking”, a general wording leaving no possibility to the backers to guess it was a single eye solution that will not suit the purpose in the end (thus will require charged upgrade).

add to this (not free content, but already paid by concerned backers 3 years ago):

  • base stations shipments delayed for WAY-TOO-loooooooooooooooong…
  • pimax controllers: if not completely abandonned, at least too waaaay delayed too and also gimped down to a version without finger tracking. Well, in the end backers have to buy index controllers instead, to make it simple.
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