Kind of bizarre to see people throwing around hmdq values, Risa is very clear what hmdq produces – the maximum FOV you could ever expect to see because it’s the max that SteamVR renders to for that headset/mode. Once the image has gone through the software and hardware pipeline to your eyes, specifically including the lenses, your perceived FOV will always be lower than this.
So rather than throwing MRTV under the bus, how about politely and constructively trying to figure out what’s going on?
I’m guessing it’s one of:
Mistake. 8KX was on normal instead of large.
Eyes/lens interface not good, comfort kit or other issue moved eyes further from lenses and reduced FOV.
Actually an accurate result, and the 8KX is losing some FOV either in the pipeline or the lenses or something.
Weirdness with a pre-production 8KX.
Inflated claims from Pimax. Remember, Artisan is advertised as 140 degrees horizontal FOV, hmdq reports ~130.
I believe Sebastian’s measurements of the 8KX are accurate because we got roughly the same result with the Valve Index and we have practically the same IPD. As the poster above said, an automated tool can never measure actual perceived fov.
StarVR claims 210 degrees horizontal but falls 38 degrees short. Pimax claims 170 degrees horizontal but falls 30 degrees short.
It seems like all headset manufacturers are not truthful when it comes to actual perceived FOV. Probably they use some automated tools to make their calculations.
Another reason I believe Sebastian’s 8KX measurement is accurate is because I’ve seen what the 8KX lenses look like. The StarVR lenses are definitely much bigger and wider.
@dmel: don‘t think so. Over 2 years now multiple people, incl. the RoV gang themselves, have measured the FoV‘s of Pimax headsets and now all of a sudden everybody got it wrong by 20 degrees ? And coincidentally the value of 140 exactly fits normal FoV setting ? Come on, do I need to ask Captain Obvious to come to the rescue here ?
The 8K+ Seb had demoed to me in October also didn‘t function well, there was some weird blurriness which made it look even less appealing than my 5K+ or 8K. My guess is there is something wrong with his settings and he has not yet managed to figure it out and now his measurements are very likely based on normal. Or Pimax diabolically sent him an Artisan with 8KX label…
I’m pretty sure Sebastian knows how to set Large FOV in Pitool. He told us it was in Large FOV. Unless he accidentally set it to normal, @mixedrealityTV?
I know that he believes it was set to Large, he already confirmed that; but unless they sent him a wildly differing version of the 8KX I think it is the most logical explanation that it somehow, for some reason only showed Normal FoV nevertheless.
If Pimax had decided to go with the Artisan approach and abandon Large and settle for 140° with all resolution utilization optimized for that I would actually welcome it ! But I just do not believe that they did it. And if they did, we should hear many reports coming in from those who have received their 8KX and had/have another Pimax 8K or 5K series headset before, because they would notice the difference.
So, either one bloke get’s the measurement wrong for some reason, or a whole bunch of other users doesn’t notice it when the FoV is reduced by 20°.
Just a question of probability in my eyes. Proof of the one or the other will happen soon enough, but for the time being I will go with what I consider the most likely explanation.
Ok, if Sebastian cannot set it up correctly then Pimax has a problem…
Will be interesting whether stuff like this will all be solved with Pimax Experience, whether some hardware doesn’t play well with it no matter what settings are used or whether the HMDs have a large manufacturing variance. (So Seb would have drawn two blanks out of three?)
Lately I tended to think it’s just his assessment, but your experience with his 8k+ raises questions again…
The numbers seem to be correct RELATIVELY. That said with his software used the numbers seem to be comparable.
To me all numbers are pretty small in comparison to what we heard/measured before.
dmel642 measured 170ish for the StarVR One is out of context because not measured by mrtv himself.
Cross comparison (different user, software pipeline, driver, etc.) must lead to uncomparable results.
I compared the FOV in HL Alyx, standing on the blacony and looking straight ahead. compared my VivePro, Index (MAX) and Pimax 8kX (small, normal, large) and with the 8kX on small i could see roughly 2cm more picture on the lenses horizontally on each side. That was simply so much more information.
If someone now states he is ready to cancel his order i have to scratch my head. it is not about absolute numbers, it is about the difference to all other headsets on the market.
BTW, tested Borderlands 2 VR extensively last couple of days, and it is now (in Oculus mode) breathtakingly clear. the feel of presence is amazing. about same great experience as in the lab. makes me smile every time i try some new .ini settings to optimize
There is an engineering joke in german (i went to an engineering school many years ago) that goes like this: “Wer misst misst Mist!”
Translated: the one who measures, measures garbage.
As M1 tester, he has more know-how about the Pimax headsets than most of us. But I guess he might not be as patient as other users to tinker around as to him it’s just another headset to test and not the headset he has been waiting for to get for own use.
Still he should get it to work. And I would agree with your statement - if the others had the same issues. But they didn’t.
(They did have issues, oh yes, e.g. the CroTeam dev who tried around for an hour until he found the issue being a prefixed cable not being properly attached - horrible QA issues of course).
But I just re-watched the video when he and I discussed the findings when I visited the MRTV HQ and I saw my recollection confirmed that I told him in that interview that I believed his (pre-production) 8K+ had an issue because it looked sort of even worse than my 8K (save for the SDE, which was virtually gone).
I don’t recall that that was ever fixed - so it seems his PC setup and the 2nd generation of 8K models somehow just don’t seem to work well together (and I assume that he did try to update drivers, firmware and set proper supersampling values). No idea why but I can only observe it.
We should just wait for others to compare their Index, 8KX and an older 5K or 8K model and report their findings. This one will be very easy to get clarified.
This is how I’d look at it also. If relative difference is the same then it’s a test methodology. If relative difference is making the Pimax look out of place it’s probably a human error.
without tuning, the pi is not so perfect. you have to deal with it first. However, the first impression often decides on the purchase, and the G2 is better for the time being.
This is actually independent reporting.
Before that, however, he mentioned the hidden potential. Not today. The little revenge, so that Pimax works on it.
