Discussion about the "Deluxe" Audio strap "design" controversy

[BarShiftGames]

Okay, so very recently pimax has “confirmed” something that has been up until now mostly hinted at to be the opposite, regarding the pimax Deluxe Modular Audio Strap (DMAS), in a post found here they say the the DMAS will be “off-ear style”
https://community.openmr.ai/t/pimax-8kx-vision-8k-x-deluxe-headphone-version-update-request/28522/8?u=barshiftgames

Which completely reverses the previous marketing from before they went radio-silent about it a couple months ago. Normally, they were talked about as an alternative for “high-end” users who want isolated audio and better bass, as well as quality audio and other things.

See:

CES 2020: The New Pimax design, housing and MAS audio strap in deep.

And they have had orders open for the DMAS open for a while, and I used my money to order it under the safe assumption that it would be on-ear, with quality isolated audio so if a loud truck comes by or someone starts talking, it’s easy to ignore, and I would get higher bass quality (which I’m sure it’s “higher than the Standard MAS” in terms of bass, but nowhere near as high quality as on-ear could be.

This is a serious bait and switch, which isn’t covered by the kickstarter legal jargon, I ordered this from their official website, with the information given, and now they are swapping it for another bad option just because “the index did it”. Even if we talk about during the kickstarter, all descriptions of the audio strap had it as on-ear, and now backers weren’t going to get that satisfaction, so it was natural to assume the deluxe was a way to replace that, and given the marketing it seemed as such.

I demand recognition that this is a bait-and-switch to draw money out of customers before telling them what it actually is like.

[Navi_8K]

Where did Pimax state and show photos of a production model DMAS being on-ear design (like a pair of headphones) rather than floating?
I think you’re mistaken here and probably hoping the design was going to be on-ear design, without confirmation it ever was and now regret paying the money you did. If so, how is that Pimax deceiving you or anyone else?

I’ve followed Pimax since 2017 Kickstarter and ordered the DAS myself. The reality is, not once did they show a production ready MAS with a certain on-ear design you describe and then secretly switch without telling anyone.

Even if they did, any company can do that perfectly legally as anything described or shown in prototypes are just that, not finished designs. Also as a Kickstarter derived project, the design will change over time and so Pimax are allowed to change what they want, when necessary.

Ages ago, Pimax USA (Kevin) mentioned that DAS is the same design as standard audio, it just has slightly better speakers that are probably only worth it for ‘‘audiophiles’’, this was way back I believe either on a trade show video or a Pimax Day video. Months later, Kevin then added on the forum that the speakers on DAS can easily be swapped with the standard audio using little screws.

We learnt this as Forum users kept enquiring how we upgrade standard to Deluxe and Kevin mentioned we simply change the speakers. Before this, Sweviver (Martin) also was guessing but not stating, as Modular Audio Strap, it likely is upgradeable as this is the whole point of a modular system.

To me, this made sense. Although unseen, the DAS was probably some sort of similar design to the standard audio, and even utilized the same strap (headband). If it did, then how would a completely different ear phone design be achieved? It wouldn’t. That’s how although I was as puzzled as the next person, I doubted the DAS would have headphone style on-ear design.

If Pimax were using “bait and switch” tactics as you allege, why did Kevin miss prime opportunities to trick people to pay more for the DAS? Even though he could have, Kevin didn’t exaggerate or coerce anyone to buy the DAS, quite the opposite in fact. For example it was MRTV’s independent VR reviewer (Sebastian) who was unimpressed with the prototype standard audio and it was listening to Sebastian on his Youtube channel that convinced me to upgrade to DAS, not Pimax USA (Kevin) for example.

To my knowledge, not once did Kevin show a completed DAS design on video that was different to the standard audio floating over the ears design.

So I genuinely think you’re mistaken about how the design was swapped without telling anyone and taking money by deception, which is your rather bold claim.

[acegamer]

More than a bait and switch to draw money out of customers, I believe it was an honest change of direction based on the nearly universal praise that the Index speakers got when they came out. I personally have an Index and love the sound that I get from it. I know that some people prefer on-ear, but you will hear very few people have a negative opinion on the index speaker design after using it for any extended period of time. The excellent sound quality combined with not physically having the headset pressing against your ear really makes for a very pleasing, comfortable experience with a nice sound stage. Obviously not every one is going to like this direction because there is never universal agreement on anything. I truly don’t see this as any kind of malicious bait and switch tactic though. I think they really felt like they were giving their supporters a better option. I personally agree with them.

[spamenigma]

Have to disagree with you here. Until today the deluxe version or DMAS ‘was’ explained as an over (not to be confused with above ear as per SMAS) ear solution. The render they showed early on was of an on ear style headphone and multiple comments have been made to infer that will be the case. OP clearly gave examples of a couple of these occasions. There have been various direct questions about this since that pimax avoided answering with a clear answer. (example for a perfect opportunity to give a clear answer to save any language ambiguity not taken)

However I don’t think it’s bait and switch, I’m sure there is a whole load of people will be happy it’s index style off ear speakers, me included if pimax stop messing me about on my support marathon.

I’m with acegamer that I assume they probably changed their minds and followed a new direction, the problem is they have been taking orders for these for months and should have said something about it sooner, but then there is a lot they should have said by now about various stretch goals that are being dragged out to this ironically called pimax now event.

So it’s extremely poor or maybe witheld communication about a design change, not a bait and switch. Should have just kept people informed and save all this mess. Hopefully they will allow people to cancel their orders that need to accordingly without hassle.

[rsbell]

Removed. Sorry, I was a little cranky today.

Edited out the vulgar part as your post was getting complaints
-Trevor

[MrScopi]

Sans vitriol, the whole point of a modular strap would be options. Seems like there are three good candidates: the standard above-ear, Index-style hover-ear, and audiophile on-ear. The problem is that “deluxe” means two different ideas for people.

The problem is that Pimax haven’t done a very good job at differentiating which of the latter two designs represent the DMAS, which lead to posts like this.

[spamenigma]

Index speakers are indeed great and I’m sure loads of people will be happy with this news, I am! But unlike you I also feel for those that have ordered and more importantly paid for something that has then since changed without a word until a buried comment today to be something else, so It’s understandable that people will again be annoyed at this situation considering index and off-ear index style solutions will not isolate from environmental noises.

[BarShiftGames]

I would like to say I’m not as entirely outraged as it appears above, but I felt that strong wording was needed to draw attention to the fact and begin the discussion. Pimax wasn’t very clear and as a result I’m sure some people (maybe like me) have felt like they bought something official and were then told it would change to something they did not want, when they didn’t buy it from a kickstarter at all, they bought it from an official provider website.

[PimaxUSA]

Hi BarShiftGames - I wish I could get into further details but your worries really are unwarranted. I highly suggest you watch the upcoming event and comment further once you hear ALL the details. I think in this case there will not be any “controversy”.

[Mikenz666]

Hmmmm maybe if news and information and answers wasn’t intentionally delayed to some undefined future date for an event no one asked for there wouldn’t be speculation and rumors for people to fight over and make their own conclusions.

If only there was a way to post information as it happens to keep people up to date…

Hmmmmmm?

[generic]

Isn’t the controversy that Pimax Now was supposed to be happening in May and no one knows when it’ll happen.

[Mikenz666]

As per usual…

[burstingtops]

I have to give credit that this hasn’t been happening as much as I thought it would, but there’s been a few notable times where people wanted information and Pimax taps the sign that says “upcoming event”. This gives me flashbacks to the months of radio silence due to the “NDA” which was milked to the extreme to keep everyone in the dark and let the forums fester with dissent.

I would suggest in the future that this is not a good tactic, to withhold info because info is going to be released at an undetermined time in the future. I’m sure the irony of naming of the Pimax ‘Now’ event isn’t lost on you, so I’m not going to keep hammering this point.

[mirage335]

I think it needs to be pointed out just how much time it can take to do a concise technical YouTube video, even at the low-end.

The technical analysis I posted regarding the 8kX was done in 1-2 paragraph shorts, had several times more outtake footage than running length, took at least 100hours to create, and people watched it for about twice that time in total. Ultimately, it took about week of my time, plus the effort to gather relevant VR footage as it happened over previous weeks.

Granted, Pimax may have perfected more of an ‘on the fly’ approach, doing these things live in one take, but for a presentation like this, some serious preparation is involved. Given them a chance to do it right.

By the way, I have to admit, I am curious whether we will see the team members (PimaxUSA and SweViver) together in the video, or whether some video conferencing/splicing will have to be put together for this event.

keep everyone in the dark and let the forums fester with dissent

I really don’t think Pimax is intentionally using that as a tactic. A larger company (thinking of someone specifically here) that could more easily accommodate their customers does that.

Rather, Pimax is a small company doing their best to do what they can, when they can, and at least make a clear, unambiguous, presentation along the way.

[burstingtops]

I was only suggesting it was a tactic to not give clear answers. The (negative) side effects seem to be lost on the Pimax team.

[EDIT]

A primary advantage of dealing with a smaller company as opposed to a large one is you can get that “personal touch”. We expect more transparency from smaller companies, and more flexibility. It doesn’t matter which industry.

[Fomatter]

The only Pimax day I am interested in is the day my Pimax 8kx turns up