Apple Vision Pro's launch

General discussion
101

Sure if you talk about being able to play games, then the Q3 wins. But from a technical perspective the AVP is just greatly superior. And it’s hard to express it in terms of underlying causes, like better colors, better lenses, better this bettter that. I’m not even sure how to explain it, I guess that’s what @twack3r means above, best to just try it for yourself. I’ve tried pretty much all headsets out there and there’s nothing that even comes close. Like I just shot a video with this thing, my 6 year old girl laughing, dancing, doing her crazy stuff. Looking it back for the first time really did something to me, like the idea you can show that to her when she’s older or look it yourself back when you’re older. It’s just so different than just an ordinary video, its honestly day/night. It’s like you’re back there in that moment. Yeah it made me sentimental for sure. It’s really like recording a memory. It’s just really awesome.

Also played some games, especially games where characters pop into your living room are just SO much better than the AVP, again really day/night. Fruit ninja is really fun.

But yeah, sure, again, if you just want to play VR games, than the q3 surely is the headset to get.

BTW I do have to add though that I’m not even sure if I agree to my own last statement. It’s a tad too general. The thing is that the GPU in this thing is WAY more powerful than the one in the q3. Mobile games look WAY better on this thing. Texture detail is so much better. It’s of course too bad that the library is very limited at the moment. I guess what misses are controllers though this kinda limits the type of games you can play. But the image quality of the rendered textures is kind of insane, the dinosaurs demo for example feels like you’re watching it with a very powerful GPU.

To conclude for me personally, if you’d tell me that I could own only 1 headset, it would be a nobrainer for me, I’d stick with the AVP. But Im sure some others would disagree and indeed would prefer the Q3

Flying back home again tomorrow, looking forward to compare it A/B to my Q3, maybe I’ll change my mind, lol, but Id be very surprised

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102

That is exactly what I mean, and I agree, it’s very hard to get across that the AVP is better than the sum of its technical specifications.

In January, I was on the Maldives with my daughter and wife and because I knew I’d get the AVP in February, I recorded loads of spatial videos.

Being able to look at them now, it’s just so much better than looking at photos or standard videos, in that sense it really is like a memory machine and the emotional reaction I have to this type of content is unlike anything I have experienced before.

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103

Exactly this. The Quest 3 does exceptionally well against a $3500 headset. Sure AVP has maybe hit what Varjo’s current top headset should be.

Now we know both Apple and Meta have deep pockets. So the question really comes down if Meta released a headset in the $2500 to $3500 price range we’d have a proper 1 to 1 to compare with

But Cost to feature and quality including life of the product? Well no contest the Q3 wins. Not much different than VHS vs Beta. Beta overall was better but due to high costs and restricted use of hardware. VHS won out. That being said :green_apple: unlike Beta is not going anywhere.

:green_apple: Will apply pressure for others to get their sh%y straight. It is sad that the Tech has been here for quite sometime. However due to no real focus. :green_apple: Has been able to slip by. Though the googly eye front screen is a creepy idea remnant of old Xbox AI Milo kid

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104

Because it needs to be at that price. Much like the early days of Oled TVs with the extremely high price to own when they first came out.

Sure the Quest 3 shouldn’t do as well as it does against AVP. But the price of ownership is reasonable dare I say for all.

What this will do is push some focus back into developing better user XP. As we have been seeing Meta ads AVP features to the Q3. The better will be to see if Meta brings something out to directly compete in around a similar price point. The question becomes is Meta really ready for it?

Maybe yes or maybe their more likely to focus on the greater market while at the same time widdling away at :green_apple: price to feature value.

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105

During my first week with the AVP I hated on the eyesight feature because it adds weight to an already heavy HMD.

Taking it to my office and now using it in that setting with many people interacting with me on a daily basis has completely changed my mind: it bridges the gap way better than just having a set of cameras staring at who I’m talking to, it cues others if I am in a focus state/immersed or in AR mode and it brings across all the necessary cues we get from eye-contact and facial expressions.

I am 100% positive this feature will both remain in all AVP iterations as well as being picked up by other companies.

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106

I am sure it will remain as well. After all you can have manga eyes. :joy:

Sure I can be useful in the ways your saying. Much like how some just want eye :eye: tracking for improved immersion in games being able to watch ppl’s eyes to gain advantage.

:green_apple: Is though being smart focusing on real refined business use XP. The sad thing about it being used for surgery or two is that the software application already existed and was ported to AVP.

I can see and iirc already hearing concerns if ppl wearing these in bad spaces. Much like ear buds can see this getting some quick bans potentially in public areas.

Then of course the more darker potential uses. And no not talking porn. Though imagine @Djonko has already tried some 8kUHD content. :joy:

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Oh absolutely we will see issues coming up and social norms will have to adapt as well.

It’s pretty Wild West right now …

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108

If you see price as a relative factor, I agree. The AVP is not 7x better than the Q3. However man about features, the AVP is better than I thought. Like I tried watching netflix on my Q3, never liked it. But I will tell you, you need a VERY good high-end huge OLED TV if you want to beat the AVP movie watching experience, it’s way better than I thought it would be. Sure, if I’m at home, most of the times Id still prefer my own TV, its more comfortable without a headset. But then again, other times I’m not in a room with a good TV or not even at home, travelling etc and in those cases it’s awesome to watch a movie on it. And also, 3dtv is back with a vengeance!! I just bought avatar and it’s just so awesome on this headset, I do think this concept might finally survive. Also like said, gaming is both worse AND better on this device, depending on the type of game you play. Mixed reality games easily win on the avp and because of the more powerful gpu everything looks better. And then there are all those productivity use cases, pretty much all better on the avp

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109

Recording memories on AVP sounds like the start of the SQUID technology from underrated movie “Strange Days”

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110

@twack3r did you already try a FoV mod? People reported that the FoV increases quite a bit without the facial interface, I just tried it and that’s indeed correct. Without it the FoV actually comes pretty close to the Q3. With the interface it’s definitely smaller (although I’m on an aftermarket interface with the Q3 which gives more foV). I dont think any aftermarket interfaces are available yet?

EDIT LOL I just did this quick frankenstein mod: https://www.reddit.com/r/VisionPro/comments/1aj4i7k/best_way_to_enhance_the_fov_and_comfort_without/
And the FoV is now really close to the Q3. Really hoping some company will release a great aftermarket facial interface, like there are now for the Q3, this mod definitely shows the potential.

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111

You use the amvr face gasked?
By the way i wish i could try one day the apple vision pro(even that i cant afford it lol)

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112

Yeah for the Q3 I use the AMVR facial interface, it’s awesome, really increased my FoV for my Q3. Really hoping something like this will appear for the AVP soon.

Not sure what’s taking apple so long to release in other countries. Especially if the upcoming Samsung is as good as @PimaxUSA says it is, then Apple really would need to hurry up.

Anyway, I A/B-ed the Q3 a while with my AVP and if you take price into account the Q3 clearly is the winner. It’s just a great device, at a fraction of the cost. But the first thing I thought when putting it back on was “damn those pixels!!”

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113

For a lot of VR companies it’s more like “End of Days”

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114

Sure did, in fact I have been designing around 50 iterations on an alternative headstrap (QuestPro style) with custom ‘blinders’ using PET-CF, PAHT-CF and TPU for the last month.

I finally have a setup that is extremely comfortable, only touches my forehead, uses the SoloLoop and is stable.

Will share some pics later.

Edit:

So that’s where I’m at:

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115

Did somone say Samsung headset :slight_smile: ? Micro OLED displays at 1/10th the price hopefully

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116

I think the AR capability and AR games for the Q3 is the “killer app” for it IMHO. If that weren’t there it would still be a good value, but not “great” in any individual specification (i really like mine). I think the AR stuff gives it an almost unique quality in our industry.

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117

Heh, it will be pricey, the newer the panel (and other parts as well) the lower the yield. Very unlikely they would be willing to sell at a massive loss.

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118

Well, sorry to disappoint those who are in love with the AVP, that is indeed my main use of MR tech at the moment, and as much fun Fruit Ninja is (actually, it never was to me b/c the concept gets old after 3 minutes), if that was the kind of games I would have at my disposal in MR, I probably wouldn‘t be using it anymore but spend even more time with flat games like Baldur‘s Gate 3.

So yes, I am arguing very much from the practical use to me point of view. And for that, I honestly don‘t need to experience the AVP first hand - if it doesn‘t enable me to play Eleven TT, InDeath, Contractors, AMS2, MSFS etc. in an easy, plug‘n play way (with no wires attached please), then it doesn‘t provide me personally with the same value. I opted against trying the Beyond, Crystal etc. for a bit better visuals when they mean I have more hassle, wires, etc…

As to spatial videos, I am sure the bigger the resolution is, the better. I have an Insta360 Evo camera which I use since roughly 3 years and if the lighting is good (essentially you need the sun), the results can be pretty impressive. But I admit that if the lighting is mediocre, the effect quickly wanes, and it is most impressive if you have a single person or object at a distance between 1-3 m. But I am sure the AVP improves on that too. And in this case, if taking these spatial videos is one of your main use cases, the process is hassle-free on the AVP while it is burdensome with the Insta360 Evo via PC to Q3.

But I am really excited about Apple getting into MR and pushing MR tech & UI/UX even if it isn’t applied by them in the way I would want it for me. And I consider it likely that I will get the consumer version of the AVP in 2-3 years. Especially if they can manage to get this feeling of presence of others as they are starting to imprive with their new beta personas - but still that would mean it is a second headset I get for other use cases.

But if asked to choose one of the two today or in 2,3 years - how could I with my main use cases being centered around gaming consider the AVP? The same reason why I never got into Macs, they always sucked at gaming, and that killed them for me irrespective of their gorgeous look & feel and great performance e.g. on photo editing.

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119

Some very valid points. Though if not mistaken Q3 does have a kind of Elven Tennis :wink:.

However unlike the Crystal’s Standalone mode. AVP as @twack3r reported. ALVR has added AVP support; Something Pimax should have pursued getting support when the VD dev said at this time he doesn’t have time to support at that/this time.

At this rate the SteamVR Link app will have an app on Apple Store before pimax even has any wireless play & well I suspect pimax will only end up getting wireless going if the Wigig module materializes for sale.

As for the Mac thing agreed. Though more the planned abandonware hardware. Though Meta & others are adopting this practise as a business model to ensure future sales. Though there are projects that usually rescue abandoned hardware.

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120

I completely understand your line of reasoning @Axacuatl and yet, as @Heliosurge correctly states, with the availablity of ALVR for AVP and Virtual Desktop in the not too distant future, the usability of the AVP has greatly expanded into the realm of applications your are interested in.

Simulators are a no brainer in the AVP and because of the excellent MR capability, I MUCH prefer racing in my MotionRig with my AVP than with my XR-4 in its current state. The same goes for any other simulator because now the constraint lies solely with the controllers.

Of course using SteamVR tracked controllers synced via Space Calibrator is an option but the friction is still there. Users have gotten impressive results using Nintendo’s Joy-Cons as motion controllers that are 6DOF tracked via the AVP’s hand tracking capacity.

There is still some jitter but the strides currently taken are impressive.

I am not arguing the AVP is currently capable of delivering as frictionless a gaming experience as the Quest, that’s for sure. But the gap is closing and for non-controller applications, it is superior.

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