8kX Right eye fatigue. 5k+ solved with -0.5 offset but not chance on 8kx

Pimax Hardware P2: 8kX
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Hi there chaps

Had my 8kX for a while now and while i am in the perfect position in all axis (Every option is tested to death so no need for suggestions here) i simply cannot get rid of the right eye strain. For the 5k+ i had the same issue which i eventually solved with the vertical offset once i became aware of misalignment and lining up the rock in the previous PVR home worked fine i could easily do 8 hours with no eye strain.

Now after testing since late November with slightly different offsets and lens distances Pre and after extreme IPD mod (no change in feel other than a sharp image) im starting to think its either faulty in the right lens or some other issue. I also get no left eye strain unless i am way out of spec ipd . If i move the left vertical offset down i still get right eye strain. So the question i guess is what is the case here. Any bright ideas, just ask for the possibility of a lens replacement?

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Are you using the comfort kit on the 5k+?

If not then try removing the comfort kit on the 8kX and try the facial interface from the 5k+.

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Dont have the 5k+ anymore but distance only make minor difference. As i mention ive tested every which way side up and tilt etc . I can be touching the lenses with my eyelashes or sit in a glare free position (with 8mm added to the comfort kit) where i look trough the distortion part of the lens when looking to the far sides.

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Some users have found they needed to use the og facial interface as the comfort kit changed how the headset sits on the face.

I know myself found had to fiddle with position on my face as got used to positioning with og interface. However with some limited testing so far. Haven’t needed to switch back.

Pimax may need to sell the og interface separately. @PimaxQuorra.

A 3dprintable gasket file might be an idea for 3rdparty facial interfaces.

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Trigen sorry to hear that, but thx for sharing your experience. I was sure I was gonna buy 8kx, but now there are many people with bad 8kx experience, and excellent 5k+ experience.
For now I use just my 5k+; if I ever buy 8kx, it better be perfect for 1550€.

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@Trigen, Have you tried different horizontal ipd values ​​for each eye? I have a measured IPD of 65, I have the mechanical IPD at least 60. And the IPD displacement by SW -1.5 left eye and +1.5 right eye. And my comfort has radically changed and my eyestrain has disappeared. I came to this conclusion after reading a post that tries to adjust the IPD through the dominant eye, mine is the left eye, it will be that I am left-handed.
Well, I opened a car simulation game, rFactor 2, I stood on the finish line on the 200-meter poster to have a reference to the distance from an object at the end of the straight. You look with both eyes at the object to keep it in the middle of the screen, then you close the NON-dominant eye, in my case the right, and looking only with the left eye you correct the horizontal IPD until you see it in the center, I had to move the IPD -1.5. Now you open the other eye of course the vision is very bad, but you have to correct it with the IPD of the eye that you just opened, in my case when moving from less to more I saw that in +1.5 right eye everything became clear and it relaxed the view. Now I can do 30 min races without losing concentration and looking into the distance to go through the curves feeling comfortable. And think that since the 8KX arrived in October I have not been able to do 2 laps correctly because of the visual fatigue that was almost instantaneous. I also have added some extra thickness to the facial foam to separate the eyes from the lenses, but that point corrects the deformations a bit and reduces the glare.

Try it please, give yourself one last chance.

And the people of Pimax should take out the power to adjust the IPD within PE, where there is an environment with objects at different distances and the possibility of touching the IPD settings so that you do not have to move your gaze, either through the controls or with keyboard shortcuts.

Good luck.

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The above post does sound promising, I’d give it a try first. Try follow these two guides as well if the above guide doesn’t work https://community.openmr.ai/t/amazing-immersion-with-right-ipd-pitool-settings/33735/3

https://community.openmr.ai/t/guide-how-to-achieve-perfect-real-view-with-pimax-ipd-compensation/18369
Make sure you try place headset up and down the forehead (look through the lenses at a higher or lower point), tilt the headset forwards and backwards and add or remove foam to get more clarity when you’re doing this.
If you have a lense blur issue in one eye, you might need to add foam thickness to increase the distance between the lenses and try adding foam at the top or bottom of the foam to tilt it, before trying to decrease the IPD on the dial and in software a bit lower than your measured IPD.

If both guides doesn’t work, then I think we can reasonably conclude that this problem being present on the 8KX and not the 5K+ likely has to do with the fact the displays on the 8KX are smaller, and closer to the lenses compared to the 5K+, or you have a faulty lense in the right eye.

If you can’t get a clear image and no eyestrain in the right eye, even when your left eye is closed and you’re only looking through your right eye, then it’s likely a faulty right lense. If you can see through the right lense without eyestrain when your left eye is closed then you either have the IPD set wrong and it’s causing eyestrain on your dominant eye, or it has to do with the distance between the displays and lenses, which supposedly make it harder to have a clear unblurred vision in the sweet spot on the 8KX, no matter how small the hardware IPD setting is set to you still have lense blur or cloudy vision in one eye all the time, or blurry in both eyes when looking ahead, which reportedly causes eyestrain and headaches for some people.

It seems that when Pimax decided to use a smaller display for the 8KX they chose to keep the rest of the headset design the same, and the lenses are designed to view the displays at the display depth setting in all other Pimax P2 headsets.

Because the displays on the 8KX are closer to the lenses than the 5K+, and the lenses are designed to look at displays which are meant to sit further away inside the headset, some optical issues come about as a side effect of moving the displays closer to the lenses to compensate for their smaller size as was done in the 8KX.

I think @risa2000 can elaborate on this a little more in depth as I have seen him post about this design issue in the 8KX due to the display positions being moved closer to the lenses compared to previous P2 devices.
I only have a 5k+ which I recently got and no 8KX yet so I can’t help you more than that, I’ve been reading a fair bit about it trying to see if its worth it myself but haven’t made the investment yet because of reading about issues like I mentioned above. :thinking:

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hello，

sorry for the inconvenience that we made，we have reported it to the R&D to analysis how to resolve it.

sincerely.

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Do you know this, warranting the assured tone, or only propagating n:th hand speculation?

…because messing with the lens-to-screen distance, in order to fill out the view, with same lenses, if that distance was correct before, would be infathomable incompetence, as far as I can figure things; The lens has one focal distance for its centre, and that is the factor that should dictate where the screen needs to be placed for a viewer without astigmatism; Period (…although, preferrably it should be adjustable, so that users with a moderate bit of astigmatism could correct for it, and be able to use the device without glasses - only the Samsung GearVR offers that).

Reasonably, the only difference there should be, given no FOV reduction, is that compared to the early devices, there would be less waste screen sticking out past what can be seen through the lens (…and there is a centimetre margin to the side of each 8kX screen, in their frames (EDIT: this is first hand information - I’ve had the lenses removed from their sockets, and looked at the screen without them), which should at least in theory make it possible to shrink the form factor of the device a little, if only retooling wasn’t so damned expensive…

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I don’t think it’s just speculation unfortunately @jojon , and yes I absolutely agree with you it is indeed unfathomable incompetence from Pimax to do that, but hey they had release deadlines to meet and people were getting angry with delays.

https://community.openmr.ai/t/my-8kx-review-problem-solution/31886/17

I remember reading PimaxUSA’s comments that the 8KX shares the same lenses as the 5k+, but the 8KX lenses have less optical flaws because the manufacturing process has gotten better.
So the 8KX and the 5K+ indeed have the same lenses according to PimaxUSA.

And Sweviver advised that the 8KX panel size was smaller than 5’5 inches, around 5 inches or 4.8 inches in diagonal measurement, when the 8KX specs were first announced last year.

I’ll try find those two announcements about the 5k+ and 8KX sharing the same lenses but the current lenses made today have less optical flaws, and the smaller panel size on the 8KX, but I definitely remember reading them, maybe someone else here remembers too.

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If that is the case every 8kX owner will need to get re designed lenses

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Why would every 8KX purchaser be entitled to new lenses?

At 4:56 of this video of the 8KX specifications it says the 8KX has increased panel utilisation compared to the 5k+, 5KXR and 8K.

Greater panel utilisation in the existing design is only possible by redesigning the lenses or reducing the panel size, which Sweviver did state on the forums the 8KX has smaller panels compared to the 8K and 5K+. It’s also possible to increase panel utilisation by having displays move when IPD is adjusted but the Pimax design does not offer this, only the lenses move when the hardware IPD dial is adjusted.

Here Pimax stated that the lenses did not change on the 8KX, so the greater panel utilisation must be to smaller panels if the rest of the headset design remained the same. I also remember PimaxUSA posted elsewhere saying the same thing but also saying the 8KX lenses have less design flaws compared to the 5K+ lenses, despite being the same lenses the manufacturers have better experience at making the lenses now.

https://community.openmr.ai/t/weekly-update-22-04-2020-discussion/27300/9

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I’d be prepared to pay if it was at a reasonable price.

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If its same lenses but the focal distance is now wrong then its a design flaw and a big mistake. If you are at all honorable as a company you issue new lenses to everyone. Especially given the price.

Id be tempted to shim them ever so slightly to see if there’s a difference but it might just lead to more fiddling as i have no idea what the difference is.

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Here’s a couple more posts which prove the panel size is smaller on the 8KX and the lenses did not change between the 5k+ and 8KX

https://community.openmr.ai/t/is-the-8kx-enough-to-compete-with-the-ever-changing-advances-in-technology/28195/157

https://community.openmr.ai/t/pimax-8k-x-and-pimax-lenses-in-general-pimax-please-put-your-main-focus-on-lenses-and-sweet-spot-not-pushing-out-hmd-after-hmd/33160/12

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I suppose if the design flaw is significant then customers should have the right to free replacement lenses on RMA, because if you can’t use the product at all due to a design flaw, then that’s obviously a major flaw in a product.

But I would only say that’s reasonable to give lense upgrades for users who are affected by the problem on request providing they pay for shipping to have that service done, otherwise it’s a huge cost burden for an issue which doesn’t affect all users.

Although having said that, we don’t know how significant and to what extent the problem exists.
It sounds like it affects users of 65mm IPD or less, which could be a pretty significant amount of users but I haven’t seen nearly enough complaints about it to suggest it affects 70-80% or more of 8KX users to warrant replacements for everyone for free.

Pimax would have to pay for shipping for mass recalls or allow users to do the procedure themselves which isn’t feasible when you’re talking about 10k-100k users doing the procedure. Now in saying that they should definitely put their efforts to fix the lenses in future models as a top priority, and maybe do some retooling to reduce the size of the 8KX given that they have all this extra space inside the headset from using smaller displays, it would go a long way to make the device more comfortable.

I don’t mean to downplay the issue, people who are in the 55mm-70mm IPD range who can’t use the device for any long period of time due to lense issues should be entitled to free lense upgrades as soon as Pimax makes newer and better lenses in an 8KX refresh model, if they send their 8KX back in for servicing, because if they can’t use the device which is advertised for a 55-70mm IPD range then that’s misleading or false advertising, and those people, should be entitled to receive free lenses which work for the IPD ranges advertised for the product (55mm-70mm IPD ranges) with no questions asked. It’s just not economical, feasible or realistic to expect lense replacements for all when there are people supposedly unaffected and that would be an unnecessary cost burden to replace lenses which work fine for some users.

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Got to be pragmatic here. Pimax doesn’t have Zuckerberg’s deep pockets, and is partly beyond the reach of US/EU consumer protection law. It probably cannot afford to fix every existing 8KX for nothing, and probably cannot be made to.

Nonetheless it presumably wishes to survive and prosper in its field.

A solution which gives future buyers an acceptable product is probably necessary to the long-term survival of the company. So new lenses (or lens geometry) are needed. If Pimax are sensible, they are working on it.

A solution which gives existing owners access to the same thing at moderate cost would be nice, and would contribute to some degree to Pimax’s reputation as a trustworthy company. How much that is worth to Pimax is a judgement for them to make.

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I can agree on that to some extent. I also wish the best success for Pimax and what they do but sadly what seems to be a lack of QC and broader testing will eventually come back and bite them so its better to ignore the masses and take a little longer to produce it so when you do release its a quality product and not something that’s 70% of what it should be.

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Yeah 100%, you’re absolutely not wrong @Trigen and anyone sensible would agree. Hopefully Pimax also recognises this and they won’t repeat the same mistakes in the future and fall for the peer pressure to release early again. After all, we only need to look at CDPR and the disaster an early release of Cyberpunk caused them, 4 lawsuits and over 1 billion of losses.

@Troz very well put, I couldn’t agree more. Let’s hope Pimax can also recognise what would be mutually beneficial interests for the prosperity and reputation of Pimax as a company, and beneficial to consumer interests, to offer lense replacements of better lenses available for purchase in their shop when they are made, and actually making said improved lenses.

Whilst it’s probably the smart thing for future customers purchasing the 8KX moving forward to get updated lenses, newer and better lenses on the existing 8KX are likely to be released as a silent revision which isn’t acknowledged, or it will be marketed as a selling point for the 8KX G2 refresh which in itself would be disastrous unless Pimax offers existing customers of the 8KX the opportunity to purchase those lenses as an upgrade, if a voucher for better lenses isn’t economically feasible for Pimax to give to 8KX users for free.

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Changing the panel size does need not to require changing distance to Lens. The 5k+ for example is smaller than the original 8k. As long as the panel is not smaller than the viewport. The 5k+ having a smaller panel increased panel utilization and improved sharpness.

Atm we have several users whom found simply switching out the facial interface corrected the problems they had on the 8kX(problems not had on 5k+/8k @Octofox, @geneis) . One member @john2910 also bought a pimax artisan and found he needed to switch to the original facial interface.

The difficulty is that with the facial interface is a variety of factors needs to be aligned according to one’s facial geometry. The comfort kit was designed in part based on users’ feedback.

When I installed the comfort kit on my og 8k and 5k+ i had to play around with the fit to achieve the same result as prior. In the og facial interface I was good with the foam provided.

At this point pimax maybe needs to do what Valve did and release info for printing different facial interfaces.

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