I know there has been a good amount of discussion here, but it would be good to get a statement from Pimax directly about the discrepancy of these two versions. From what I am seeing, we essentially have backers with two different experiences, where they should all be the same. In the same way that the plastics seem to be a dividing among backers, this is looking to be a huge problem.
Pimax team, please answer the following:
How many backers received 202 vs 203 vs 204. Are there any other serials with notable differences?
Besides panels, what are the other differences in the serials. Are the early, more fragile plastics only on 202 versions?
Is there a date specific when Pimax began to ship these different products, eg first X number of shipments were 202, then Y number of 203 shipments, and then the rest were upgraded to 204âŚ
Given that there are differences in quality and capability, what is Pimax going to do for the backers who are stuck with the 202 serials.
Not only is it a huge issue that the backers are being left behind regarding these relatively simple matters of plastics and ergonomics, but it seems also that some backers have a better product than others.
Ergonomics and quality of plastics for sure. As long as were not confusing original advertised specs vs newer components having unlocked new features in later revisions.
Ie
202 90hz(Advertised KS) with possible 110hz (New development)
vs
203/204 90hz(Advertised) to 120hz(new feature development unlocked and now advertised)
Well I do know many products folks get stuck with early releases from wanting to be first.
First in line usually doesnât get the best version.
Now if it is a significant issue like HP Reverb had then a recall is issued. But if it is something like PSVR you have to make a choice whether to buy a revised product.
We all know the reason why the change in Lcd panel from the 202 series was due to inconsistencies in supplier quality primarily the variance with the sizing noticeable Black dot pattern.
It is quite common to change suppliers when a supplier fails to supply an expected level of quality. As for the 203 I & others have this serial without issues. My old 202 model that I sold to upgrade my pc had no issues during the time I had it; including the very noticeable black dots others had.
Pimax on the good side vs Valve exchange many 202 models for the Black dot issue for the 203 serial. The 203 btw works fully with 120hz.
Both 202 & 203 serials did full fill the Kickstarter advertised specifications. And pimax was good with addressing the black dot quality issue. Where as Valve simply said itâs not an issue but a panel property.
Now some will call foul. But are you aware the first XB360 had a customized Graphics processor that caused a lot of console failures? That was later quietly replaced with an Nvidia chip? I believe that was within 6 months of release.
The Nvidia gpu chip was indeed much better than the custom chip MS used.
Electronics, Automobiles etc often have revisions during their production life. It simply something as consumers we need to accept. If you want the best version of an Nvidia 2080ti? Wait til just before the new gpu series is released and buy one you know was manufactured near the end of itâs production life cycle.
So now I am getting censored. Spectacular. This is absolutely shameful. Backers are getting railroaded and this supposed open community is now suppressing simple discourse.
Again, I am not arguing that the the device didnât meet specs. But what we have here is a fairly clear correlations between various failures and serials. Although some 202âs may not have failed, itâs more likely that itâs just that they have not failed yet.
Secondly, although the 120hz capability is a nice development, itâs further pretty unethical that a number of people who paid the same money are getting an inferior product. This is further marked by the inferior plastics, buttons, dials, fastenings. This should be an RECALL and backers should not have to do more than put their HMDâs back in a box.
the first XB360 had a customized Graphics processorâŚ
I lived it. Had three units red ring on me. I find it pretty disappointing that you would take an apologist position based on a couple of examples where the company essentially got a way with wrongdoing- particularly in light of your stance on these matters.
Beyond all this, I am looking for responses from PIMAX. We have established opinions among the community, and I am not looking for people to make excuses for unethical business practices. I want Robin Weng to speak to this directly.
Welcome to the real world. Simply put all later releases are often better than what was released before. There is no apologist here. Simply a reality check.
As you tried to make your post seem neutral it did contain elements against forum rules.
Dude, if Toyota hadnât have the best CVT in the new RAV4 during the first half year of production, and now changes to a better one on the same series - for the same price - would you expect that, after half a year of use, they take your car back for one with a new CVT?
You got the Pimax 5K+ 8-10 months earlier than those who buy since end of October 2019. You even paid less.
Those are details I donât have. Save that there were ones that were not as bad as some folks like yourself experienced. Which is also why I had difficulty understanding others reactions to a known property of the 5k+. Until it was discovered that this had quite a bit of variance out there. Mine was reasonable and no one I showed my og 5k+ noticed it all.
It had to be significant enough to discontinue use of that panel.
No, but a recall is entirely in order. Just as auto manufacturers do. There are many people who are salty that their headsets are yesterdayâs news. I am not that guy. If Pimax even did so much as to send me the updated shell and cowl, I would be a lot less angry.
Again, not trying to start unnecessary arguments- I am really trying to get word straight from Pimax. We backed this company and we have a right to goods as promised. There are plenty of examples where a company exercises their rights to change manufacturers etc, where the item operates as intended. This is not one of them.
Well if you have a quality defect like cracks you will receive an updated one with improved housing and likely a 204 serial. No one save 8kX Backers are receiving the newer cowl. The rest of us have to decide if we want to make the purchase.
So in this respect not sure why your angry? If it has a quality defect then apply for an RMA. The process is already in place Riccardo.
But car manufactures do not do recalls on component changes that are not required if it doesnât affect safety. Why if you fix your car yourself it is a good idea to check your vin as some parts are different depending on what part of the year and facility it was built.
Unless I am looking at the wrong parts of the product, I see new cowls (pronounced hump from the front view) on all newer devices including the artisan. Items predating this ridiculous ârebrandâ have the old setup- XR, BE and the OG 5K+/8K. I am going by the CES footage and the pics on the store page.
There are a couple of issues with the RMA as it stands. To start thereâs the obvious comms issues, but also-
Backers are putting up costs to fix defective devices. I am one of the lucky US owners, but it appears the US center is not doing anything on this front, so we are all still paying shipping to China. I am seeing figures as high as $100. Thatâs insane and unacceptable.
There are no published assurances that we get anything but replacement in kind. Again, if Pimax would make ANY STATEMENT regarding this policy it would likely help de-escalate the situation they have put themselves in.
Pimax clearly acknowledges these faults by way of the fact that they are doing these broken half-measures. Whatâs really sickening is that they are only going as far as triage-style damage control. They refuse to offer any form of proper service. That means backers might be sitting on devices that could see failures today, tomorrow, or in coming months. Based on all this, Pimax should either RECALL headsets, or at least ship some kind of home repair kit.
I see you keep putting this on me personally, but I am yelling and screaming because I am trying to get through to Pimax for the sake of an equitable treatment of ALL BACKERS- the ones I like as much as the ones I donât. I donât plan on stopping until Pimax is ready to have a clear and above board conversation with us.
Lookit- we all took a risk on Pimax. Pimax is clearly doing very well for itself- itâs not like they didnât kill it with this KS. We therefore should be able to have a headset that isnât some half-cooked, pre-release test unit that could break at any moment. I backed the DKâs and the joke is my DK2 is built like a brick $h!thouse- never a question of mechanical failure. itâs still kicking a$$ 5 years in. I paid pretty close to the same amount as my (what was 8K) but I didnât have to treat it like it was made of papier-mache.
Pimax took all of our issues and iterated new versions. They rebranded to drop any accountability to us. Until they make a good faith statement or moves to make good on these headsets in some way shape or form, thatâs the reality.
1 - Wrong. Iâve had an RMA and I did not have costs for shipping.
2 - If you RMA a defective 5K+, you will receive a working 5K+, most likely an SN204 btw.
3 - What? Take off that tinfoil hat man.
To the last part, yes, this is you personally. Youâre making a problem where there is none. You clearly seem to have issues, with all that swearing, and fearing that anytime your headset âcould break at any momentâ. Yours is also not half-cooked, pre-release test unit afaik. You have a 5K+, right? Is it defective? Not. It fulfilled what you backed for, what you ordered. You want more? Have to go along the cashier, like any of us.
The last part âPimax took all of our issues and iterated new versionsâ is great, Oculus did the same with the DK2, the CV1 which got resolution increase and lase weight with the basestations, HTC increased resolution, improved screens and fitting on Vive and made it VivePro, Samsung improved SDE with the Odyssey+ (I had bought a normal Odyssey 2 months before). Itâs called technological development. It constantly iterates and improves, each year.
Bought a Mustang GT2019 and along comes the flood of electric cars. Allright. That happens. Progress. I still donât get what you are angry about.
The only headsets atm coming with the Comfort kit instead of the og Cowl is the 5k Super 8k+ & 8kX. SweViver is talking to the team regarding the Artisan that it should be packaged with the Comfort kit.
The 5k+ & 5kXR are still selling with og cowl. Comfort kit is an additional priced add on.
The Artisan at CES did have the comfort kit installed as well as a vive DAS that is not included.
Yes there has been communication issues. Pimax has been from my knowledge either reimbursing shipping or providing return labels of late.
But A fair question to alleviate your concern.
Your number 2 is odd? As if you are approved for RMA your headset how can you say you wonât receive a replacement.
Any product bought could see a failure at anytime. Especially after a warranty period has ended. Replacement parts? A member did by his own admission broke one of his 4k panels in the 8k when it was dropped. He contacted pimax and was able to purchase a screen to repair it himself. So yes you might be able to purchase replacement parts as there is a previous history. Pimax also in the past sent replacement parts for p1:series headsets.
Not putting anything on you in the least. Save this your looking for pimax to have a conversation with yourself.
Yes we took a risk and knew that it was a risk and unlike many kickstarters we have received something. 8k backers can say that they didnât get all that was expected. Ie 90hz. But we did get a return.
As for the paper mache comment. Guess you missed the fellow who wacked his headset off of a window frame quite hard no damage to headset.
Since you would like to have a conversation maybe try a pm for your concerns.
Apologies- my phrasing could be better. Concern is they furnish a replacement of the same kind- ie same plastics, same knobs, same display, etc.
Why donât they broadcast this? Frustrating.
I choose the forums because this affects all backers. A PM would be more appropriate if I needed something specific to my issue- such as damage from an accident, or perhaps extenuating circumstances regarding shipping. These are policy issues that affect us all.
There are plenty of examples of people paying the shipping to China. Try a larger data sample than just yourself.
So youâre probably going to come at me with some kind of entitlement nonsense, right?
Yup, you did!
I donât know what I was thinking! With all of these shining reviews and sunny discourse over here- oh and Reddit! Itâs so lovely over there! I appreciate you might have a functional headset, but you might want to start thinking about people other than yourself. Sorry if people trying dealing with the fallout of some terrible business ethics is such a disruption to your day. Talk about reeking of entitlementâŚ
Most people that I know of have received revised models. This is why it was awhile back asked for folks to wait til sept/pimax day 1 as the new housing would be implemented by around that time.
Hard to say but may need to be evaluated to setup a method. If you recall Mozi had even mentioned the possibility for things like the front housing. Can bring this up with the team. Personally a slight change in front housing electrical connections could be a way to add another layer of modularity and easy diy repair.
Sometimes in my experience taking something offline can yield the kind of results your looking for. As it becomes less confrontational and can be a better environment to discuss concerns that may lead to changes.
Many users other than myself have raised concerns in private that have resulted in changes that folks have approved of.
I did the RMA, I never had to pay postage as they sent me the postage labels, they even refunded me the import tax, I defiantly do not agree with a lot of things PIMAX do, but they did go out of there way to make it wright for me.
No postage for me either. They did however accidently cost me VAT by not marking the product RMA on return.
Even on that, Pimax dealt with my ticket quite quickly and refunded the money, so my experience with the ticket and service was great. I also had a quick response when requesting my 5K+ coupon.
From all I see. Pimax is cleaning up their act nicely. Not sayin there isnât more to do, but I like where their going.