VR RoundTable - Pimax Updates (Lenses update) & Controllers
Pimax conversation begins at 24:31
I don’t necessary agree with everything they were saying… the idea that software developers might be hesitant to write apps to exploit the higher resolution for example… Why would they need too if it’s SteamVR compatible?
With regards to the controllers… yes they are a bit of a knock-off but from Kickstarter it was clear that’s what their backers were asking for!
Who are these bunch a clowns actually?
-dropping high res?
-still confused about the name?
-no idea of manufacturing?
-evolutionary design would be kinda copy cat?
-never heard about custom key map or controller configurations?
Internet is really weird with all this kind of trash… 
(just to be clear - don’t watch - wasted time IMHO)
I can tell you if it would be an american company building the 8k headset. All there vr websites ect would be promoting it as The next big thing! Instead of tearing it down every chance they get…
They think htc and oculus are so great and pimax 8k will just be a toy that doesn’t even work properly… What a load of sh… They don’t realise how close we are getting and what a massive difference it will make.
The vive pro will be an absolute crap experience in comparison.
Nathievr also does weekly podcast and they also brought the pimax up the news about it being delayed.
He actually says he’d love to try one out. But yeah they don’t necessarily say anything bad but it comes across to me listening as if they were kinda sceptical and hoping it turns out a big flop or something.
For what reason i have no idea i guess they’ll realise when the actual headsets start arriving to consumers. The good news is one of the guys vroasis is actually a pimax8k backer so if it does turrn out something special then well the word will get out there at least.
I’ve been following Anthony’s 8k coverage on his channel and at first I thought the same but he’s actually quite realistic about Pimax
Don’t forget that if you have neither followed closely, nor tried an 8K, or at least listened to people who did (and you do consider to be honest about it), you would have to think that Pimax are a dodgy company selling a huge cloud of dreams but not actually offering anything realistic:
They say they will increase the resolution, FoV, want to add modules for wireless, hand- & eye-tracking, all of that while maintaing a weight of less than the Vive, add controllers which effectively should something like the knuckles ? And processing capacity demand should be acceptable after all with some mysterious Brainwarp tech? And wanted to deliver this HMD some 3-4 months after the KS campaign ?
It does sound a bit over the top, don’t you agree ? It just sounds too much as if an eager marketing guy wrote the specs before checking with engineering what is actually feasible…
Now we believe that Pimax will actually deliver on a couple of those bold claims, but only because we had a closer look, and understand that some of these features will be achieved by simply using existing 3rd party tech like LeapMotion, possibly TPCast and not something they develop by themselves.
I can easily forgive anybody for being sceptical until the 8K proves them wrong. The unsuspecting spectator must feel like it is utterly impossible for Pimax to deliver on their claims if HTC considers the modest improvements of its Vive Pro to be a great deal, even entitling them to call for a higher price of an already quite pricey VR system.
How can they know that HTC just plainly lost their marbles ? Or are trying to tell the consumers to get the f*** out of their way because they are now a serious company who only want to deal with business customers.
It’s not as if they only started developing the 8K since the Kickstarter went live
Sure, but
My thoughts exactly. 20 minutes I’ll never get back.
My biggest concern with the current controller prototype is the sheer volume those outer rings take up.
Ithe 8k hmd already sort of pertrudes a bit more than vive off ones face, plus having space taken up by the rings on thismprototype means the way I hold a controller up to my hmd to scope is going to be a distraction when these rings get caught up on each other or swinging a sword with the angular design on the hmd on the sides.
I feel in the physical design the knuckles got it right. So if I were to buy these what I’d look for is something improved somewhere else.
Maybe double or even triple up on the haptics? Add additional mappable buttons (we know valve is making a steamvr control config similar to the steam controller so I know many would love extra buttons), or perhaps make the entire controller capsense. But the hands moving around more in vr than anything else, should have a minimal physical footprint.
I agree that it’s wise to copy the knuckles and there’s absolutely zero shame, it’s not about that. It’s about game compatibility going forward. It’s a wise move.
Where I tend to agree more with these guys is the field of view is the biggest thing the hmd has going for it. Although I’m excited for higher res and EXTREMELY excited for almost no sde. The upscaler in the hmd is a great idea. Not allowing users to configure in software the exchange of resolution for display hz is a bad idea. If they can’t crack 90hz at their targeted res, I think this is at least something. Although 85hz would probably be fine. I mean they could allow you to slash away more and more resolution for hz. 120hz. Bandwidth is agnostic to how it’s being spent, only that it knows it’s limitation (assuming they never figure out tuning it to 90), but really, hypothetically, even if they reach 90hz, we should still have an option so exchange resolution for higher refresh rat3s. All displays donthis. Cameras donthis. It’s processors that don’t care, inside these devices, how the data bandwidth is spent.
I also disagree with something else they said. I think if pimax fulfills what they promised, true brainwarp, no issues, at least 85hz with software options to exchange res for refresh rate etc. they will be a great market for those who always wished a vr hmd like the pimax dream existed.
After having seen the v3 I would say they solved 200 FOV. But I’m not sure anymore that was of any value since the lenses used in the v3 were extremely good and expensive. So we will have to get cheap lenses of a totally different class that might demolish the quality this HMD seemed to be getting. I saw no god rays and clear focal point all around. That made me back the kickstarter because all the other stuff, including only getting 80-83 Hz, is fine by me. I just fear this lense issue right at the end of almost delivering the M1’s is going to bite my ass hard.
Bait and Swtich is a very bad strike to have & Pimax’s comeuppance would be strong and swift.
AKA Disgraced.
Let’s all hope this never happens and our wait is well worth it in the end.
Well, let’s wait and see, nothing we can do right now.
I agree, when I tried the V2, its sweet spot extended to the outer rim of the lenses. This is where I was slightly surprised to read from Xunshu yesterday, that the sweet spot is said to be even bigger than that of the V2/V3.
And it’s true, I did not notice godrays.But bear in mind that my Fruit Ninja demo would not be a demo in which you would expect to notice them, so not having noticed them doesn’t mean the V2 did not have that issue at all.
So let’s speculate for a moment and assume, the new lenses perform worse than the V2/V3 ones: if we end up having a Rift (or even worse, Vive) kind of narrow sweet spot & awful godrays lens, I concur with you, that that would be a real let down and would seriously disappoint many backers, as well as limit interest of the potential customers out there. Doesn’t necessarily mean the 8K would be junk as a result, but it would have lost some of its edge over the competition. And the more it loses that edge, the more people will rather wait for a CV2 from Oculus or HTC (Vive Pro doesn’t qualify as next gen).
On the reason why the lenses could be worse in performance, well, we do not know a lot, we can speculate all day. I still have not really seen any statement that the V2/V3 lenses were very expensive and that would be the reason for not using them for the production versions. I believe that was just somebody’s wild guess here on the forum which some poeple than adopted almost as if it were a fact and confirmed.
Imho the fact we know about is that they said that they would start to use production tooling on the prototypes after V3, and then we could witness the V5 being ripped a second hole. But I thought - without having checked the reports from the time - that the major issues were less related to the lenses, and where there were issues with the lenses, it was e.g. the distortion/convergence thing. But the V2/V3 was reported to have exactly these flaws too - we just all believed that it was a matter of the missing IPD adjustment, but that never was really established, so can we really pretend that the V2/V3 lenses would have been flawless on that point if a working IPD adjustment had been implemented ? No, some people just assume it but it may be true, or not, who knows.
This is just to point out, that I am not sure if the V2/V3 lenses were really that superior, and even less, that they necessarily were expensive. We just know that Pimax have some kind of undisclosed issues with their mass production lenses, which is why they are at their third attempt to get it right. But what the issues are, and if they relate to cost, or something completely different, is just speculation.
We will have another month to speculate till the M1 test results are hopefully published…
Yea, the cost aspect was related to them using some sort of manual process to create the lenses. And that was indeed someone in the forum who said that, and made sense to me.
For me it’s trying the headset and seeing that super large sweet spot that made me back the project. If that aspect is missing in the end I would feel very much conned. Just a personal angle.
Agree with everything you said.
V2 v3 lenses were fine, many testers agreed.
The new lenses should be even better, according to xunshu… Bigger sweetspot less godrays.
For now i choose to believe this and see it as a positive thing.
I didn’t at first, mainly the delays made me sad… But in the end it might just be worth it.
If pimax delivers i don’t think I’ll feel the need to upgrade for many years to come…
Truth to be told I did not bid on the complete set because I did’t think Pimax would be able to deliver and build in time the base station+controller+headset. I’m still please and somewhat surprised with the last iteration, This said Steam trackers impose a lot of constraint in the mechanical design and fitting so many sensors on the ring will be hard work to achieve something in series at a reasonable price
They will be many other iterations…
Me personally would however be interested if they did something innovative with their iteration of lighthouse, such as adding Xbox one Kinect style body tracking built into the light houses. We’ll see.
Well, even if Pimax deliver as they promise, let’s talk in 18 months from now. VR has a long way to go, we will always want more when time passes. ALWAYS.
That was likely to be my speculation. Pimax said they were using multiple stacked lenses in V3. That will definitely be more expensive to purchase and assemble than a single-lens solution. Stacked lenses will be thicker too, which is a problem for those how wear glasses.