At best, title is wrong. Changeable frequency is not necessarily what is needed, better working frequencies may be needed.
Well it is relevant and has been proven to work.
Proven? Who? Where? Citation?
I have done my own experiments, and conclusively determined that resolutions even rendered at or very slightly above 1440v, show significantly and substantially higher visual quality, when seen through a 2160v display. Below 1440v, there is still no significant (observable) advantage when viewed through a less than 2160v display.
To be clear here, unless the compositing pipeline is bypassed - unless static non-moving HUD graphics are sent to the display with pixel perfect alignment exactly like a desktop computer display - the upscaler can only harm visual quality.
So like your angst towards Steam, I think we will see support as planned.
Not relevant. Steam continues not to address ongoing concerns. This is about what Pimax, a company that is doing things, should/not prioritize.
Logically, lower than native upscaler refresh rates do not make sense.
I get it. That is your crusade. It is also deeply misguided.
Something like a 60Hz upscaled mode is going to confuse users. At the very least it needs to be hidden behind a ‘this is a very bad idea which can only harm both performance and visual quality’ warning message every time the user tries to use the headset configured like this.
Kind of like driving a car with the parking brake set. Sure it happens, and is a very bad idea. Oh, and yes our GPUs have limited lifespans at full temperature, much like parking brakes do…
At the time such a feature was implemented, it probably could not have been predicted that it was a fundamentally bad idea. The extent of the need for more supersampling to overcome lack of native resolution was AFAIK first determined by me personally.
Now, it is not at all appropriate to implement such a misleading feature, no matter what was advertised.
If they go opensource as stated in your Pitool you are free to put things like that in it.
Upscale is not about picture quality vs Native.
The Upscaler works well for it’s intended purpose to support a lower input resolution as it did in the p4k, og 8k and 8k+. With the last 2 having working refresh options.
So like how you and some find the SMAS decent while majority find it is a bad idea for a flagship vr headset. You should accept there will be features in the 8kX you think are bad and pointless. And leave it at that.
I don’t think people will be confused by Upscale vs Native. Compared to have 2 kinds of Supersampling + gpu settings + in game sampling settings. Or having a whole whack of display and ipd adjustment options.
So like how you like the smas; accept others like the upscaler with refresh rate options.
Are you going to develop this? Hopefully anyone who develops such additional code will have to think through the implications far enough to know what features simply do not make sense.
Those headsets could not connect to a GPU at full resolution. The 8kX can. Driving an 8kX at lower than native resolution is not a useful feature in itself.
Hence why no scaler would be needed. When you could implement a frame doubler. Your missing the whole point why pimax added the scaler when it was originally stated no scaler in the 8kX.
It makes no sense to you because you see no value for your usage. Don’t mistake your viewpoint as a reflection that all should agree is correct.
Now for something folks might be interested instead of a debate on opinions.
I have also forwarded info on Playing without PP in Project Car 1 & 2 as well as others. That it works in pitool 260 and has been broken in later versions.
So with luck in a future release maybe not the next one. We might see this fixed up to work again.
I do vaguely recall that argument, and have been keeping it in mind, actually. Back when CES 2020 and the NYC Roadshow happened, the upscaler seemed like a valid selling point for skeptics of the performance requirements of 8kX native resolution.
Having the NOT FINAL 8kX unit months early, I was able to quantify the opposite - massive reduction of performance requirements if any impact - in all cases. Especially at supersampled resolutions between 1440v and 2160v. Unambiguously, the 8kX requires less GPU/CPU, and native mode is always better.
Whatever promises were made, the data clearly shows this is not a feature customers should want. That should just be explained, and the feature should be dropped.
You are basically pushing a crusade to hold Pimax accountable to deliver all ‘promises’, even if these no longer make sense.
Such behavior is counterproductive - this is not in your own best interests as a VR user.
Stop.
_
Well it is relevant and has been proven to work.
Also, I notice several posts have gone by, and having claimed proof, you failed to ‘put up or shut up’. In some venues, that can be a bannable offense.
Your on several crusades while confusing them with others.
I can’t help if you choose to ignore what is posted.
The scaler is there and things will move forward in directions whether it meets with your approval or not. So you should take your own advice as your right:
Since you ask, my related projects are mostly doing well. My preferred solution for replacing SteamVR though is OpenHMD support for the 8kX, and replacing the Lighthouse tracking. OpenHMD development is the part I would prefer not to be doing myself, so help would be appreciated there.
In such a time frame, I could consider publicly releasing some prototype software that makes such middleware easier to develop and work with. Undecided.
No, SteamVR will not last another five years, or even two.
Opinion without likelihood of becoming proven. I remember when people once said Steam will never last. And here we are today.
Valve and Microsoft are not going away anytime in the foreseeable future. Now I can agree that Lighthouses will likely superceded within the next 5 years as there is sufficient evidence of tech getting there and people wanting flexibility of setup without all the extra equipment just to game in VR.
Do you realize how badly you spitt on everyone owning a 8k or a 8k+ and how bad this is for Pimax image to have someone claiming they are selling an headset with degraded and blurry quality?
I have a 8k+ so what I am too stupid or too poor (even if I have my 8k+ for a year now so 8k+ owners enjoyed low sde and Q2 similar quality way before 8kx ppl) or both maybe? How about every other 8k+ owner? Stupid because they have a upscaled headset?
Did you ever tried one?
My 8k+ have similar image than the Quest2 link mode, do you see many people complaining about the Q2 being blurry??
If you only tried the 8kx mode and it is blurry well there must be something wrong with the X in this mode (which I says it is since the X release)
Of course it is not ‘stupid’ to use an upscaled (or 1440v) headset. I still use my 5k+ for roomscale. Obviously I have indeed used a variety of Pimax headsets, 1440v, 2160v, upscaled, native, etc - the 5k+, NOT FINAL and PRODUCTION 8kX, a variety of other 8k+ headsets and similar at CES events, etc…
Pimax 1440v headsets (8k, 8k+, 5k+), of course continue to be relevant as a good tradeoff in cost/resolution/FOV. Moreover, that generation of headsets represented the threshold of VR really becoming usable, to the point that leaning towards every single object was no longer necessary, and the imagery became visibly clear.
What is stupid is to expect the upscaler to help improve computer framerate.
Pure mathematics folks.
I am rarely surprised, but this thread is disappointing. It seems people are happy to ignore the facts just to put more pressure on Pimax over some advertised feature that is actually not useful.
Of course it makes more sense to have a 90 Hz native mode (or even 85 or 80 if nothing else is possible) with the 8KX, but when will it happen? It is not even clear if it will happen at all!
There are people out there who are extremely sensitive to flickering and cannot tolerate the 75 Hz for long play sessions. The upscaler mode is the only option until a better solution is out there.
I also don’t see the upscaler as a tool to reduce rendering power requirements, in fact the upscaler produces best result when using heavy super sampling almost close to 70% of the native resolution.
And this is in fact a reason for having a 90 hz mode as it reduces the render requirements while overcoming the 75 Hz limit and enabling good results with still high super sampling! and 90 is the sweet spot for most people as they don’t feel the difference to 120 Hz. 75 Hz vs 90 Hz is however is a different story.
Why not using 90 Hz upscaler with heavy super sampling until the native 90 Hz comes along in whatever time! I only agree with your point if the 90 Hz native mode is just around the corner. But that does not seem to be the case according to SweViver!
Indeed and at present pimax needs to start showing they are keeping to commitments after failing to meet so many of them(best not to repost that exhaustive list). And it is not like it is a new feature like BW alternate eye frame rendering that it seems did not work out as planned.
Simply complete these easier to add features; they already have the experience with the tech. Pimax needs to start consistently delivering on existing commitments that has not already been sidestepped or abandoned. The 8lkX as advertised needs to match 8k+ in features sets.
Regardless of those whom think pimax should abandon things like Controllers or headset features they don’t believe are much use or needed. The company needs to start establishing consistency in what they say has meaning and is accomplished. Easy wins are the best start.