Tech Talk #16 : NFT

Dear all,

Non-Fungible token (NFT), which are generally created using the same type of programming used for cryptocurrencies.

What’s the point of NFTs?

Is it worth buying an NFT?
An NFT has value because the buyer and their community believe it has value — which is true for all art and collectibles.
But is this scenario beyond the standard?

Is the NFT as an evolution of fine art collecting (digital art) ?

Aren’t the NFTs over? Didn’t the boom bust? Going to comeback?

What do you think this influence for the Youth? Especially when we heard most of them are involving in the Youtubers, Tiktokers and etc.

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NFTs are driven purely by hype and misunderstandings of what they are and how they work. This creates a perverse incentive for people who are profiting off of NFTs to overhype them and spread disinformation about how they work.

It’s frankly a dead-end technology. Very few of the grandiose claims about what it could enable in a “Metaverse” or “Web 3.0” context are technically possible or actually useful, and zero of them are both. I hope that it dies as quick a death as possible because, even though it isn’t fundamentally a scam, scam-enabling is the only feature it has which distinguishes it from other established and superior methods for accomplishing the exact same things (e.g. selling art).

Personally, any company which jumps on the NFT/cryptocurrency bandwagons is instantly dead to me. So please, Pimax, don’t be like HTC.

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To create a purely artificial market.

It was previously worth buying with the intention to sell at a higher price if you were willing to accept the high risk and had no ethical qualms about preying upon the welfare of your fellow humans.

In some ways it is typical of get rich quick schemes. It relied on a combination of hype and ignorance to get people to spend money on it.

The fundamental problem is that it’s a virtual representation of value when there is actually no underlying real world value. It’s all imaginary.

But crypto currency more generally has caused an unprecedented problem for the world in actually causing enormous amounts of work and energy to be wasted in crypto mining. Which is an effort that produces no real world benefit, but eats a great deal of real world resources.

The people who imagined these schemes may or may not have intended well, but the results of it are harmful to humanity. Some people benefit, others lose. But since it’s just burning a lot of energy and not building anything real with that effort, overall it inevitably produces a growing net loss in total.

No. There is no benefit NFTs provide which isn’t better served by conventional means.

More generally, crypto currency is imagined as a means of producing currency which is not under the control of any country or bank. Supposedly this brings power to the people. But in reality, it just means that these currencies are maintained and controlled by other parties which generally have no oversight at all and who may be even less trustworthy.

It seems to have (inevitably) collapsed at this point. I hope it’s gone for good.

I agree with this. I really don’t want Pimax or any other company I work with to get into NFTs, etc.

There’s this movement to try to create the metaverse with built in crypto currency and NFTs and to artificially and needlessly create scarcity for virtual land, etc. And basically everything these people are pushing for is terrible predation upon customers.

It’s important for the public to refuse to be preyed upon this way.

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People here generally have a negative view of NFT. Probably it’s due to the recent scams which make everyone thinks NFT is a ripoff.
However, I think NFT is a great way to secure your own digital assets and make money from them in the future. NFT is something that we have been waiting for a long long time.
Imagine you just spent 1 week to compose a nice song and you want to sell it online. Right now there is not many viable platform for you to really claim it to be yours. If your song leaks out into mp3, then the whole net owns it. No one will give you one cent for it. But with NFT, you can declare this song to the world that you own the copyright, and you have all the digital signature to prove it. If any website host your song, you can ask them to take it down, and the law should be on your side.
So I have high hopes for NFT. Once the technology is mature, its market will be booming. Right now we are still in the early stage.

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As someone who has actually made substantial income selling music that I made online, this claim isn’t true. Your music will leak out into mp3 and be copied around the internet no matter what you might do to try to stop it. But it’s easy enough to establish that the song is actually yours using conventional means. Nobody else has the original recordings and project files for instance. They only have the finished mixed song.

And anyway, even though a lot of people will steal your music to listen to for free, there are people out there who will also buy it. All the theft surely reduces your sales, but to claim that nobody will give you a cent is hyperbole.

You’re pretty much repeating the sales pitch for NFT. If only it actually produced the benefits it claims to.

Any website that would be willing to take down your song would be willing to do so without needing NFTs. And the other sites couldn’t care less if the song is stolen or not. There’s kind of this whole history of governments trying to fight music piracy without success.

I haven’t seen anything meaningful which is actually solved by NFTs or crypto currency in general.

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NFT is SCAM. Just SCAM. Put NFTs in a lootbox, speak some magical words, play the bulsht bingo, promote it, call it art, call it culture, and wait for the stupids. It will work in the end. But not for the stupids.

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Wouldn’t that be nice, it’s a shame that it’s not actually true. NFTs do not support your ownership rights under the laws of your country, they represent a wholly and separate alternative system of “ownership.” Essentially whatever the blockchain says is law.

NFT-bros won’t ever tell you the full implications of this system. For example, if you get hacked and someone sends your claim of ownership to another person - they now own it, fair and square. Whoever the blockchain says owns your music owns your music, and if that’s in conflict with the copyright laws of your country there are only two options:

  1. Too bad, it’s treated exactly the same as if you had sold the rights fair and square. If you dare complain about this you can enjoy a bunch of victim-blaming from the NFT-bros, as they cannot tolerate anything which threatens the hype their income is dependent upon.

  2. Alternatively, if your country decides their copyright law supersedes the authority of the blockchain, which I hope it does, then the whole NFT thing was entirely superfluous, a gigantic waste of time and effort. Your country’s legal system will continue to uphold and enforce your copyright regardless of the fact that you no longer own it according to the NFT, and you can continue to sell the music and initiate DMCA takedowns.

While this is a bit concerning for holders of a copyright, this is obviously an enormous problem for “virtual property” which is intended to be bought and sold, like art pieces and “land.” Any marketplace you intend to use for this purpose is a vulnerability, an obvious point of attack for hackers, and indeed we have seen major NFT marketplaces subjected to all sorts of creative attacks which have transferred NFTs from their users without their consent or any compensation.

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Wow! Good to get a music expert’s opinion in this, for I don’t know jack about music making. :smile:
My question is: don’t you think it will be much better when you can use digital signature to prove the music is yours? Instead relying on the original composer’s files? NFT can give the world an undeniable proof, yet at the same time you don’t need to expose any of your working files. And what if you lost the original files? Hard drives break all the time. If you lost the original files, doesn’t that mean you cannot prove the music is yours?

Yes, I understand that there are people trying to take advantage of NFT, hackers who try to grab the ownership, and other bad apples, but I believe that NFT is the right direction.

Think about it. NFT is much easier for machines to process. So in the future, when something is trying to play a piece of music, using NFT it can easily query about the authenticity of the music.

In the past, the government failed to stop the music piracy, due to the complexity of copyright claims. However, if there is a reliable way to universally verify copyrights, it will make their job easier and more efficient. The big companies will also have an easier way to fight against the piracy problem.

I am talking about using NFT in the future. It’s the right direction for the digital assets. I am not talking about the current scams and abuses. Those things existed in every new technology. Javascript was once deemed as spammer’s toolset. Email was abused in so many ways…etc. Today we are still using Javascript and emails, and the experience is much improved. I believe NFT will go through the same process.

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I never really had much trouble with other people claiming they made the music. It was nearly all people just stealing the music to listen to.

I think you may be trying to solve a problem with NFTs that isn’t really much of a problem. I mean, I’m sure it happens. But by and large, that’s not the issue with music piracy.

What if you lost your private key? What if the NFT is stolen from you?

There are any number of ways to alter the file slightly so that it no longer matches the signature. There are lots of ways to attack this technology. The assumption that it will be able to defeat every method of attack ignores how these kinds of “hacker proof” technologies have faired historically.

Piracy is conducted with entire massive libraries of stolen music. The most popular pirated music to download is the stuff from popular artists that everyone knows. Identifying what artist made the song and that it is stolen isn’t the difficult part.

Governments have failed to stop it because every time they cut off a head, two more appear.

You should look up the history of governments trying to shutdown pirate bay.

There’s a big difference there in that Javascript and email and other technologies solve significant problems. But NFTs really don’t solve any problems that didn’t already have solutions while bringing in a whole slew of new vulnerabilities. Arguably the only thing they’re really good for are scams.

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