Should backers wait for Sword Sense?

Hi everyone. A topic I haven’t seen discussed yet so wanted to ‘start the ball rolling’.

Q) Does anyone think Kickstarter backers (currently without controllers or lighthouses/basestations) should patiently wait until March 2020 for Pimax to launch their Sword/Sword Sense controllers?

Q2) If so, can you please list your reasons why because I have no idea if the Valve Index ‘Knuckles’ controllers are inferior/equal/superior.
From what I can see, the only technological benefit is the 2020 Sword Sense comes with a removable battery pack which means you don’t have to stop play, like with Valve’s controllers waiting for them to charge up?

Q3) Might it be that with Pimax controllers large circular gauntlet, ( some backers don’t like due to the size), this may produce better tracking/finger tracking than the smaller Valve units?

Thanks for any opinions.


Q2) Removable Battery from my understanding is Nonsense Sword.

Not fully sure on my end. Likely wait on Sword Sense on 1 headset (slotted maybe June for sense) Nonsense slotted possibly for March.

Much will depend on incentives.


I’ve not backed the controllers, however I have some interest in how they turn out and hope they take the opportunity to learn from the most comomon feedback on the index controllers whilst there is time. But for now I have some thoughts.

Only the non-sense version has been mentioned for March, I ‘think’ they estimated June? for the sense version. But it is just an estimate on a roadmap and can easily change.

At the stage nobody knows outside of pimax if they are better/worse since they are still in prototype stages of development so not much can yet be said for a comparison.

I do believe the deal they offer to swap for index controllers is too expensive. Personally if I’d backed I would take the other option of credit put that money towards something else such as 8kx and go just buy index controllers if required. Obviously for those that can’t just buy index controllers due to where they live may have more reason to consider taking advantage of pimax offer.

Overall the current choice is relative to cost and time. So the decision is subjective to what you require now or if you can wait.


They’re quite ok once you get used to. I’m worried more about how good or bad are they working with Pitool. Is some functions always goingto be broken in some games by turns?

Even Valve+game devs are having problems incorporating them.


My take:

Pimax has no idea how to design the controllers (remember the “halo ring” around the wrist, they copied from Touch controllers, without realizing that Touch uses completely different tracking), nor how to make them ergonomic (remember the ergonomics of the facial interface of the Pimax headset). So if they succeed it will be only be sheer luck.

Second problem is timing, I do not expect anyone to believe Pimax at this stage that they ship anything in March 2020. They may, but again, only by sheer luck. Or it could be just M1 version.

Third problem is quality. The controllers may have “black dots”, or “sparkling dots”, or whatever else may happen to controllers, perfectly in manufacturing tolerances.

Or Pimax will release the plus version of the controllers, once they shipped all backers and will offer it for only a “small fee” to them.

If anyone needs/waits for controllers, I guess he should go with swap for Index controllers (or just buy them outright and put the pledge into something else).

Waiting for Pimax controllers can only be justified for educational purposes, or for people who like surprises or are masochistic :slight_smile:.


It was finally too long to wait, so I put an order on Steam for the Index controllers.

Apart from cutting further waiting, it means no compatibility or other issues to worry about either.

If by the time they arrive they are genuinely significantly improved ergonomically over the Index (good but not perfect as I understand it) and no other major issues, then I may consider buying them and selling these ones


If they’re going to charge another US$180 to get Index controllers then I’m not giving them my money. I’ll wait to June 2022 to find out they have no clue how to make a good sense controller and take it from there.


Valve took many years to develop knuckles and they are not perfect… Guess better stick with knuckles and don’t hope for Sence in minimum June2020 more like Jan 2021…

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Hahah @risa2000 I like your brutal sense of reality.


Personally going to just go with valve bs and controllers route, reason being, if pimax having problem achieving perfectly aligned seams, no bulges and still having cracking on plastic issues, i find it hard to have faith in the controllers in terms of build quality, durability etc, controllers will definitely see more abuse than the hmd as its going to be handled much more frequently. For me its a no brainer to go with big name company where the build quality is almost guaranteed.
As for hmd im willing to settle with less build quality but better visual, (and handle with extreme care)
So i personally think the swap proposal couldn’t be better for backers. For me at least

Not saying pimax controllers will be bad but big names like vive and oculus has proven their build quality and it’s clearly above pimax’s.

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Good thing is, pimax can copy and profit from tech there already is. Fine tuning and software will take there time.
I am also thinking- knuckles know - sword sense later - post summer.
I guess I might buy them know (knuckles) and get the ROI from pimax when they are done - might get a second HMD ( 8kx) and so some more controllers in a year or so won’t hurt. Also pimax might actually really make them better - since they could learn from what valve did right and wrong.


I think that will be less an issue for the controllers but it’s very reasonable to consider this… ( or pimax to inform us? Updates, Progress Reports? - Sorry it was a Short Night started dreaming again there) :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::see_no_evil:

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I actually think making a durable and well thought out controller with premium plastic that is well formulated to withstand accidental drop, impact, is a harder task. For a small company.

So thus my calculated choice would just swap to valve gear to avoid disappointment.

Im no pimax hater, im actually going to consider the 8kx, but im also a realistic person.


True …
But it’s harder since even valve disappointed here …

but I want a full Rig sooner then later and the idea behind both is great. That’s also a reason for getting the knuckles now and then the sword sense can come when they are ready - I got a big family so worst case is I get both and keep em in the family which will be no loss.
Edit: The price is a bit hard - it’s 300€ over here for the knuckles…

Edit2: The more I thing about it … strange that pimax has to skip the Christmas sale with the controllers and the only ones of that type will be the knuckles… is it just technical or is there more to it … valve will sell a view BS and controllers that way :smiling_imp:

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Sense controllers are estimated Q2 2020 by Pimax, which can easily mean Q3 or Q4. As I have no other headset/controllers and want to use the HMD, the wait is too long. At least we are getting the base stations soon (I hope), I already bought one because I wanted positional tracking even for the seated experience.

Pimax knuckle upgrade is too expensive and also long wait, so I finally ordered Index controllers from steam. They arrived yesterday (~1 week since ordering in EU). I did not have that much time with them yet but honestly I don’t see all the hate for them. They are comfortable, sit in the hand well (with several adjustment options), I see no problem with the design. I’m losing tracking occasionally but I suppose that is mostly because of single base station and lot of reflective surfaces, I will try to address those issues later.

If you go with knuckles you will need Beta version of Pitool. The last stable version (132) does not work well with them, after updating to 180 beta they were paired easily and just work.


I don’t see the appeal of Pimax’s own controllers besides price. Valve has been working on the Index controllers for years.


Since I have the index controllers, which I think are quite good, I’m going to wait for the Pimax ones, or possibly swap for the 8k-x coupons, if thats possible.
Depends on the first reviews of the 8k-X though.

Bases v2 def going to keep, so I can sell the full Vive package with the 1.0


I have zero confidence the Sense controller will be of sufficient quality. I will take the Index deal 100%.

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Yeah, to play it safe I think thats a good option

I’m wondering what the options are for our deposit if we don’t choose Pimax controllers, Index upgrade, or an 8K-X?

Assuming Pimax won’t refund us, will we just have to wait for another Pimax product that we do want to buy? I’m leaning towards an 8K-X, but nothing definite until I see detailed testing