Point-by-Point Demo of (not-final) Pimax Vision 8kX

Thanks to everyone for the interest in this. Please do read the commentary on the YouTube page - there is an index and some errata there. Also, in the interest of staying on topic within segments of the video, some details are introduced early on, then elaborated upon in a different context later.

So feel free skip around if your brain starts melting like mine does at times, but stay tuned.

Point-by-Point Demo of (not-final) Pimax Vision 8kX - YouTube

By the way, this video was made a little more difficult by a large number of technical issues (and admittedly lots of outtakes) in production. I hope I don’t complain too much about SteamVR on screen, and very much appreciate everyone’s patience. :wink:

_

https://store.pimaxvr.com/shop/product/pimax-vision-8k-x-384

The Good (25min), The Bad* (10min), The Ugly* (5min), The Understandable (5min).
Tutorial on optimized resolution settings.
Footage and commentary.
Minor stuff.
About the author, and (mostly related) projects.

Of course ‘the good, the bad, the ugly’ is not meant to be taken literally, but this is ‘unbiased’.

At the end of the day, the Pimax Vision 8kX has roughly the same shape as older Pimax headsets, but with substantial display upgrades and a few new accessories. Most significantly, the combination of resolution nearing typical human vision and FOV provides close to the functionality that VR should be.

See 1:35:03 for a mention of the optical alignment sensitivity .

A huge thanks to the Pimax community for their ongoing enthusasism and feedback. In particular, it has been amazing to see so many people are actually interested enough to read long, detailed analyses of VR hardware and software.

Typical VR App Startup with extendedInterface - Elite Dangerous (Also applies to DCS World.)

https://community.openmr.ai/t/pitool-steamvr-application-resolution-spreadsheets-project-extendedinterface/25414

https://community.openmr.ai/t/virtualdesktop-vrtoolbox-ovrdrop-bigscreen-results-with-pimax-vision-8kx/25505
https://community.openmr.ai/t/findings-optimized-1-5x-total-sr-75hz-dcs-world-elite-dangerous-pimax-vision-8kx-8k-upscaled-5k/25893

https://community.openmr.ai/t/pavlovvr-on-pimax-vision-8kx/26227

https://community.openmr.ai/t/steamvr-blur-filter-observations-and-speculation/25925

https://community.openmr.ai/t/does-anyone-else-care-portable-workstation-hardware-to-consider-for-pimax-vision-8kx/26109

https://community.openmr.ai/t/man-yells-at-cloud/25797

https://community.openmr.ai/t/video-through-the-lenses-pimax-8k-x-vs-valve-index-vs-odyssey-in-virtual-desktop/25912
https://community.openmr.ai/t/virtual-desktop-through-the-lens-comparison-pimax-8kx-vs-valve-index/25904

00:00
Intro

2:57
The Good

30:03
The ‘Bad’

38:31
The ‘Ugly’

50:17
The Understandable

55:32
Tutorial

1:03:29
Footage

1:37:34
Minor

1:46:34
Author

Errata
Commentary on refresh rate might be misunderstood to suggest 60Hz is adequate for typical VR applications like PavlovVR. Actually, 60Hz tends to work well for flight sim and Virtual Desktop type apps - 75Hz is indeed significantly more preferable for roomscale. The intended message is that higher framerates not currently available in high resolution mode (ie. 90Hz) are not strictly necessary.

Field of View is approximately the same as 5k+. Exact measurements have not been done to rule out small differences.

Valve Index does have a combination of both refresh rate and resolution some dedicated roomscale users may prefer if field of view does not concern them. That said, I continue to expect this accounts for a minority of those who prefer that headset…

Incorrect mouse cursor position can be a problem with SteamVR’s desktop views. It can be hard to find a balance of mouse cursor, trails, and such, that works well across both better established Virtual Desktop apps, and SteamVR’s built-in solutions.

What is often referred to as screen-door-effect may in fact be two distinct effects. Pixelation - which results in jagged edges. Space between pixels - which results in black grid lines. In some situations, the 8kX does not visibly show either effect at all. In all situations, the 8kX does NOT show black grid lines.

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Hey, thanks for getting this out! Been looking forward to it for a long time. Only watched 10 minutes or so, so far, but you clearly put lots of effort into this. Much appreciated!

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Great video. I skipped to here

So you’re happy with the black levels?

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Yes. Aside from a pitch black carrier deck, I can’t imagine where it would even be noticeable.

Like if I could fire up Stellarium in VR, and calibrate it to a photorealistic sky, on a moonless night, I think even that would not look grey.

And why I would be spending much time getting frustrated by grey on a carrier deck - instead of arriving, taking off, looking at the HUD, etc, is even harder to imagine.

And I did not find the grey frustrating. I have a hard time understanding why this would be such a big issue for anyone. Not being able to read the instruments, or squinting at them through haze all day, is just intollerable by comparison.

Really though, black levels are about the most trivial point made in the entire video. There is a lot more to watch…

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Trivial to you maybe but not to me and I absolutely disagree. In games like Elite, Arizona Sunshine (Mine level) and now even Alyx, grey blacks are immersion breaking.

Given black levels have always been my personal concern coming off a very early 5K+, I skipped ahead to that, with the intention of watching all 90 mins at some point. Given your remarks I don’t think I’ll bother now

Cheerio

Respectfully, I disagree, at least as far as Elite is concerned. The game itself doesn’t draw black for space. There are generally dark layers of gas clouds, so that certain areas of the cockpit are darker than space itself. This hasn’t bothered me at all, either on my flat-screen monitor or my 8K.

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using the 5k+ ive never noticed any blacks that didnt look black so im not sure where the conversation even comes from

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@TonytotheB
Sorry if I offended you. If you had a really bad experience with black levels, that is a more serious problem, and that does not apply to the 8kX. Only if you are expecting OLED black levels, would it be a problem. Like I said in the video, the 8kX is better than my 5k+, but not the order of magnitude difference measured between LCD/OLED these days.

I don’t know what your ‘very early 5k+’ looked like. Somehow, it must have been bad if Elite Dangerous was such a problem for you.

Please do consider watching the video.
I think the pixelation I found in certain programs due to improper anti-aliasing, and the enhanced immersion that comes with better resolution are also things you might want to know about.

@neal_white_iii I can usually find a patch of solid black somewhere in the Elite sky. Indeed, there may be some parts of the cockpit that are very slightly darker, but there are some solid black patches in Elite that make for nice testing.

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Perhaps I took your comments in the wrong way then. My interpretation is that the 8KX has better black levels than (and I say this for the 50 millionth time and I wish some people would learn to read) MY early 202v 5K+ which has fairly poor black levels. It’s the main reason I held off spending 1800 bux.

Will do

Butosai - I am asking because this has pained me despite loving the FOV, reduced SDE and clearer text.

And Neal, you aren’t looking hard enough if you don’t see true blacks in Elite on a monitor lol. Or maybe your monitor sucks. Because I see perfect blacks on my ASUS HDR 4K 200Hz monitor

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Keep pointing out the underlying reason another 50 million times. Eventually, I will remember who is saying what around here. :wink:

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It’s an “ok” monitor, but certainly not top-of-the-line. The not-quite-blacks have never bothered me.

I’ve spent more time than most Elite players at the very edge of the galaxy and even there, space isn’t drawn as pure black. It has nothing to do with the screen. Take a screenshot and look at it in a image editor; the color of space can sometimes reach single-digit rgb values, but it’s never true black (0,0,0).

Here’s an example from the very edge of the galaxy, taken from my recent circumnavigation voyage (note the near absence of stars):

Here’s another shot, to show how far away I am. Look at how distant the center of the galactic disk is and notice that there are NO stars on the left…

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That’s far out! That second screenshot looks like it could have been taken from somewhere like Beagle Point.

To be fair, an LCD is most likely not going to render RGB 0,0,0 as well as an OLED renders RGB 3,3,3 . Not surprising that Elite never reaches zero-value black through. After all, as bright as the stars and such are rendered, some dynamic range is required.

After fixing up some things that were broken to make this video, I plan on trying Freespace in Virtual Desktop again. The backgrounds there tend to render a more (color) realistic dark.

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True. And it bothers me not at all.

I’ve been to Beagle Point 3 times, including both Distant Worlds Expeditions and the Pegasus Run 3305. LOL! That second shot is about as far from BP as it’s possible to get, to the far “south” of the galaxy. Earth should be approximately in the center of the galactic cloud from this vantage point.

Back to the thread topic… I’m really looking forward to playing Elite D on my 8KX, which should (hopefully) arrive sometime in the next few months.

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I’m stuck at home so I’m going to watch the full 2hrs since well. It’s not like I got anything better to do.

But @SweViver please link @mirage335 's video on your channel. I actually find it pretty refreshing, I think lots of people will be interested it’s just not a lot of people use the forum compared to youtube.

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You’re arguing with a strawman that you created lol. I’d take (9,9,9) over anything above any day. Also, the RGB may be drawing at (0,0,0) but if there is a glowing light behind the screen, it will be yellow. That’s what mine suffers from I think. It’s got nothing to do with Elite, or any other game, rendering at true black. It’s a yellow glow during very dark scenes.

@Heliosurge sorry to throw you in here but is that something I could even speak to Pimax about? I actually think I’ve been coping with seriously poor panels since I got it :slight_smile:

This is my conclusion (above) and again thanks for the effort in the video. I will watch it later.

Ah, yes! A yellow glow, rather than the expected gray, most certainly rings a bell of familiarity here, and would seem to be at least a p5k+ thing.

I too would like to know whether that persists in other - especially new - models, from somebody who has seen, and know it.

I’ve been thinking it must be something like light leakage not through the whole panel surface, but from the edge illumination, glaring in the Fresnel lens ridges.

If your’s is anything like mine, it will be that yellow glow hanging like a mist in each corner, so that the view looks kind of like a fuzzy black cross on yellow background.

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Ah, then I’m lucky that my 8K doesn’t suffer from that. Like a typical LCD, black is a uniform very dark gray, which doesn’t bother me.

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Same here on my 5K+ 203sn
uniform grey when full black screen is displayed, love to get that backlight control back :+1:

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Any limitation on black level in the 8kX is grey, not yellow.

your 5k+ dont have yellow glowing? you are lucky i receive two 5k+ and both had the same problem (one sn202 and other sn203). for me its worst than distortion. i just hope 8kx dont have it

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