Pimax delays on 3rd party items


@PimaxQuorra @PimaxUSA

I write this under the impression of my exchange with Pimax in the last few days. I apologize for the wall-o-text, but it has to be said.

If we look at the many delays Pimax deliverables have demonstrated, some stand out as being quite peculiar:

Exhibit A: content redeem codes.
According to Pimax, all is prepared, i.e. they have the steam keys, just need to send them. This was said many moons ago. Yet, till date hardly anybody received such a simple email, right ?

Exhibit B: Lighthouse boxes (and Index controllers)
According to Kevin’s post in April 2019, they had finally managed to agree on a deal with Valve, and would have enough in stock to start shipments to the backers within 2-3 weeks - which would mean we should have received them in May 2019. Yet, till date no deliveries were received, right ?

I recall Pimax informing us in autumn that the deliveries were delayed due to Valve having surprisingly delivered the lighthouse boxes only as bulk deliveries and Pimax were required to perform a) quality assurance and b) re-packaging for consumer delivery.

In my case, I had contact with Pimax Support (Sally Huang) and Pimax in the forum (Matthew Xu) in late December 2019. They confirmed to me that I would get the lighthouse boxes shipped to me without having to wait for the Sword/Sword Sense controllers to be ready for shipment (which will not happen in foreseeable future anyhow). Shipment was said to be performed as soon as the deliverables were ready to ship.

That is four months ago. Yes, Corona struck at CNY, but the workers are back to the factories since 3 weeks and all of these activities should have been completed in 2019 anyhow, so it is entirely obscure what is holding them up.

So I contacted Support and Pimax Quorra in the past days - the response I got from (again) Sally Huang was as follows:

"Sorry to have kept you waiting.Your base statons haven’t been shipped yet.
In fact,we are confirming the logistics cost and transportation plan, which will take some time,when we have new progress, I’ll give you the latest news."

As a reminder - we are talking about deliverables I paid for in 2017, which did not require any R&D work by Pimax other than possible a new housing, and according to Pimax were in stock in April 2019, then allegedly required some QA and re-packaging work. That’s it.

Now, in March 2020, I am being told that they need to confirm the logistics cost and transportation plan ? How could they not have figured out the logistics since April 2019, when they were saying they would ship within 2-3 weeks ?! And then the statement which will take some time rings all alarm bells with me - they are already in fact saying that we can forget about any delivery in the coming few weeks, better months. My other Kickstarter/Indiegogo projects with China-based deliveries are shipping just well (e.g. I received my PrinCube and the PicoPix Max is shipping in numbers since 2 weeks now and I am in row to get mine in April).

And of course in December 2019 and 3 days ago they also tried to play the good ol’ we need you to update our shipping information survey trick to buy some time - how many times more do I need to remind them of my shipping information ?

Since they introduced the different Upgrade Plans, swapping for Index controllers became an option. These deliveries seem to have gone missing analogous to the lighthouse boxes, just happening within a shorter time-frame.

Exhibit C: Hand-tracking module
I paid for mine during the KS campaign in 2017. Still missing in action, hardly any communication about it (as it won’t be many who backed it).


The odd thing I see as a common denominator in all of these is the fact that Pimax would a) not have much internal effort related to such deliverables as they are more or less completely supplied by a 3rd party and just need to be shipped onwards to the backers, and b) have to pay a supplier before receiving such deliverables from them.

This is a clear indication in my view that Pimax are not planning to deliver any of such 3rd party supplied deliverables in near-term nor in mid-term, and they have no good explanations for the sum of delays we have seen now. Some of the explanations may have made sense, if viewed in isolation. But if the figurative lightning allegedly always strikes at Pimax, then simple probability considerations tell us that this has now become what would have to be considered an extremely unlikely scenario, if we are asked to believe it. Often the obvious explanation is the correct one at the end.

So if there is no convincing explanation any longer for not completing what-ever internal actions ever were required to ship such 3rd party products to the backers, then the most logical explanation is, that Pimax have never in fact paid for such supplies, and as a result never received the steam keys, lighthouse boxes, Index controllers nor the hand-tracking modules, and therefore are not in a position to ship any of these soon.

They may scramble to send e.g. the cheap Steam keys if they feel that it is needed to buy them more time, and I bet they are going to ship a few lighthouse boxes and Index controllers to be able to point to those users in the forum to muddy the waters, but I doubt that Pimax are capable of shipping the deliverables in any substantial quantities, because I fear that Pimax are not in a position to afford them, i.e. they have no money anymore. Which typically is the last step beyond going bankrupt, unless they are able to get an investor to save them. It would also be fitting that Pimax started to take pre-orders with immediate collection of the payments way before being able to deliver on these.

I hate to say it but I fear we might not see much coming out of Pimax in future anymore.

In any case I personally will certainly not invest any further money into Pimax and will warn people in the German VR forum to rather wait for the Pimax products to become available from a trusted retailer.

For us 8KX backers it brings up the question what to do in terms of the return of the loaner units. If we return them we might still never see the 8KX, nor any of the other outstanding deliverables. If we don’t Pimax use that as a reason to not ship the 8KX to us. I guess the sane thing would be to wait until the first backers who returned their loaners truly received the 8KX and to only ship it back then, hoping to not be the first where Pimax won’t deliver anything anymore.

What do you guys think ?

@Sweviver: Marcin, you must have a slighty better insight than we have - I would make sure to care about myself in good time if I were you. If you cover up until the bitter end that will take away a lot of credibility in the community, so if you can’t speak up due to confidentiality undertakings then I’d at least distance myself from Pimax before it blasts up in your face too. Take care, man.


Back in October 2017, I backed a full kit, for roomscale, as an upgrade from my WMR setup. But since then there are a lot of big red flags that they aren’t managing their resources correctly, I think you are likely right. An easy example is the controllers. Update #20 in April 2018 showed they were 3d printing final prototype shapes and setups for controllers. Basically since then no movement, no progress, in two years on them. Base stations over a year of delays (since they said they had them, nevermind since the start), many, many buyers and backers are still without for roomscale. Additional modules are always promised, but never actually produced, the hand tracking, eye tracking, MAS, etc. A few one-ofs, some nice renders, but nothing actually shipped. The fact that they keep making minor alterations to their only released product (the HMDs) and selling pre-orders and new lines instead of completing 30 month old backer orders and pre-orders tells me that for some reason they can’t complete those old orders.

In the past few months, I’ve basically given up on them, delays in kickstarters are to be expected. but in 2017 they were originally talking about 2 and then 4 month timeframes for full delivery… now they’re talking 36 months and realiscially they haven’t even started on parts of that promise which is 3-4 months away. I’ve gone from Pimax booster, to neutral, to active discourager when it comes to my friends in the VR community over the last two and half years. What an interesting ride it’s been!


Hey, the only thing keeping me relatively happy during this global pandemic is thinking I will get my 8K-X soon…


Sorry… but I just cannot find another sensible explanation for the behaviour of Pimax. Maybe they will deliver the 8KX, that surely must be their hope for future business, together with perhaps the Artisan.

But it is becoming very clear that we will not see the other accessoires any time soon, and I can only warn people to pay Pimax directly for any products from here on. If you can get the Pimax headsets from a retailer at some stage, you will a) get a refund if they don’t deliver and b) get remedies if warranty is not being performed. If you ordered from Pimax directly: well, better write the money off; you can only hope because you have nothing in your hands.


I agree with most of your conclusions. It feels like the team has their backs against the wall.

I don’t think they truly expected it would take as long as it did to get their HW out the door. I don’t know if they were overly optimistic or not, but it took nearly an extra year before they shipped the original headsets. That’s a year of paying salaries without generating any revenue (outside of VC and other funding). I think most of us can understand that is an untenable situation.

Since then, it feels like they’ve been trying to make up for that lost time. Releasing incremental headset iterations probably has the lowest R&D cost compared to controllers. Now that they’ve ironed out a deal to sell Index HW, why should they spend money developing their own controllers?

What’s frustrating to me as a customer is that I’d be willing to accept and understand if they had been honest about that. They have dealt with supplier issues, tooling issues, software issues, etc. They’ve had to run for a long time on little income.

Instead, we hear statements like “development of additional headsets does not impact other deliverables”, but also “we are only a small team of engineers”. Any mouthpiece Pimax have sent to the forums eventually burns out after having to constantly stall expectations with worn-out excuses. It seems most informational releases are bottlenecked by an archaic chain of edits and team-talk that @PimaxVR needs to streamline if they want to deliver on improved communication.

It’s OK to have financial problems. It seems obvious to everyone that the backer “upgrade” programs were more about releasing Pimax from stretch goal obligations than great deals for backers. Yet rather than be honest about it, there were endless arguments over the “value” of each stretch goal and how the value adds up, or “the X is worth it!”

What’s the point in continuing to burn the goodwill of your most likely supporters by constant stalling and misdirection? Most people here want Pimax to succeed, but how can we help without a frank and honest discussion of the facts?


And I also fully understand if I ask for separate delivery of the lighthouse boxes, that will add shipping expenses, and if they addressed that openly, I would be willing to pay may share to get that out of the way. I repeatedly mentioned that in posts back in December.

But at this stage I fear it is no longer about poor communication alignment from Pimax but simply no ability to deliver anymore.

And I for my part couldn’t care less about e.g. the software content, I have loads of VR software in my Steam account still waiting to be discovered, but I do need lighthouse boxes and my Index set order at Valve, only posted 2 days ago, will still take 2 months to be delivered… after that time I will be more relaxed because I will be in the position to just wait & see if I ever get any further deliveries from Pimax and then just re-sell them on ebay.


The April 2019 is just one of many of PimaxUSA’s vague inaccurate messages.

  • Actual Truth Valve started to produce LHes again. Not that pimax had received. 1 of many of his misleading info posts.
  • Pimax only just started to receive them in I believe Nov 2019. Controllers in Retail Packages and LHes in Bulk.

However I do wholeheartedly agree that Lighthouses should have started shipping as it was updated that this would begin 2nd last week of January. - Which seems to not have happened.

I agree we shouldn’t need to continously update shipping address. But the Odoo system has caused a lot of problems.

I have backed this as well. There was an update on it. But agreed it should have some traction imho by now. I was not impressed with seeing several Youtubers outside of the m1 test group receive it long before Leap was sold and absorbed by Ultra, Now called UltraLeap.

  • So pimax needs to see where UltraLeap is on getting this completed.

Codes 1 of 3 peices was available when Backer’s headsets were shipped. Not sure why but shortly after shipping started Dreamcatcher code was not in Delivery emails. I had received this code with Both 8k and 5k+ headsets.

It has been very slow but there are reports of some receiving 2 codes. I have myself only received the 1 code out 2.

@PimaxQuorra @PimaxVR @mozi we do really need an update of substance. Please get the above sorted and release an update including Stretchgoal progress and 8kX return labels.

There can be no reason why these are well overdue of 4 weeks since it was said was going to be released.


for me, it’s HL: Alyx


I havnt received any codes


Yes and that is identified as part of the problem. I don’t know why they stopped sending out the codes with Tracking info Email on headsets - save maybe to speed up the process?

However I think the First code Dream Collector should have been continued to be sent with Headset Tracking numbers.

Not that the game is playable without tracked motion controllers. :crazy_face:

I had guessed it was part of the 3 peices of content as you might recall back then when I posted received.


Me neither :thinking:



What I don’t understand, why is there no reasonable feedback about the base stations that are in stock?
If these have been prepared for the European market for weeks, it must be possible to make an accurate forecast.

Why was Sally given a delivery date that was again not met? I prefer to call my customers an appointment that I can keep.

I think it was positive to get a statement, 3 - 5 working days. Only I would have found it better to hear that the delivery date is 8 - 10 working days, if everything goes well, a little earlier (or whatever)

Now the only question is what is the actual delivery date or can I no longer get it ???


Pimax are dying, they cant eat the cost of the unexpected dev time that was required to get the initial HMDs made, all the RMAs due to various extended quality issues, asking half the price for v2 lighthouses and two thirds the price of index parity controllers.

The only ones that might get lighthouses+controllers are the people that took the bait and paid for the switch.

The Pimax ship is sinking and the expected hardware, beyond the HMDs, we put up the cash for during the kickstarter is going to stay vaporware.

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Well, it is either financial (cash flow) stress, or they’ve got a new financial controller in place who is putting some financial discipline in place. It is really hard to tell because of the poor communications.

If it is a new financial controller, it would make sense because they’re trying to get their part of the value chain sorted, but the rest (excluding engineering) is not getting the same love. This would be a typical case of local optimization messing with overall throughput - see the “theory of constraints” if anyone is interested.

I think we can also see this cost management love with support coming back to China - again this works for cost control, but is problematic for language/culture frustrations that can cause lots of rework and customer frustration (reputational damage).

I don’t understand why they’re doing point solutions everywhere instead of treating this as a systems (supply chain) problem. I’m guessing they’re brilliant engineers, but don’t have the same level of expertise at the rest of the elements of the supply chain. To be fair, I’ve seen multi-nationals bork this completely too, not just startups.

Because I don’t just want to complain, I’d like to offer the following suggestion(s):

  1. For each stream of work (typically product related), (visually) lay out the process flow required to fulfill.
  2. Let people know that this is a gated process with long lead times (education)
  3. Explain the priorities - we understand that you need to focus if you want to deliver.
  4. Let people see where this is at visually (see point 1) so people don’t make crap up to fill the void.
  5. Create a user portal where they can see where their individual products are at. (shows you care)

One off emails for licenses, raising tickets to see where we are at (must cost a fortune!), escalating on forums to get resolutions, people going mental on the forums, etc. has to distract Pimax from the key job at hand - doing awesome VR stuff. I really want the Pimax guys to succeed! Not just because I want my stuff, but because these guys are pushing the boundaries (really hard!!) of VR and I want them to continue to do so.

@PimaxQuorra You have a community here that has a vested interest in making you succeed - leverage this. It could be as simple as a list of the key community concerns, what you’re focussing on, what are the challenges, and celebrate the progress made.

Anyhow, I’m going back to lurking.


All good & fine, but at some stage you still will need to deliver the products to those who paid in 2017.

No expert manager or communicator can avoid this nasty little detail to be taken care of at some stage, preferably without a 2+ years delay.

How many times more do you wish to accept another excuse for, every time, not being able to deliver the accessoires ? Isn’t a substantially decreasing probability bothering you, that their cumulative reasoning for all the delays can actually happen to this one project, always drawing on the short straw, never being lucky, always being on the wrong side of unexpected events ? I think my chances of winning the main prize in the next El Gordo lottery in Spain are bigger than Pimax having really suffered all the set backs we are being presented to believe…


Absolutely, they need to deliver. And I believe they’re trying their hardest to do so. If they were shady, they would have taken the money and run at the beginning.

I get the frustration - I’m an 8K-X full backer and I’ve got zip so far! But! What they are trying to do is incredibly hard and hats off to them for achieving what they already have. I find it inspiring that they’ve gone from an idea, to this (flawed though it may be). And they may yet fail - I don’t think so though.

I think this would all settle down if they were better at communicating, but there are reasons not to - competitors for one. They also can’t show weakness because “why buy from them?” And, so on.

Note: The furor around new products instead of delivering existing products is valid yet incomplete. They have to keep momentum (cash flow) up if they want to continue to innovate.


Yeah, it’s a dilemma. Because the continued innovations so far has created this more serious problem: that they need the keep the momentum to even produce stuff that the got paid for years ago. Deep deep trouble.

A fat investor is what they need. I hope they manage to get one on the hook, because the tech is there. And we all want them to succeed.