Yeah but what specifically made them fail to do 90hz. “Valid specifications” whats that mean? Forgive my ignorance if that has meaning.
Was it the ports on my 3090? The use of DSC compression? Certainly they advertised my unit at 90hz capable for quite sometime. That’s for sure. But effectively it wasnt 90hz reliable.
When the 8kx came out, there wasn’t a hardware and driver-level way to get to 90Hz/nativ. Actually, DP1.4 delivers far too little bandwidth. The development only started after the release of the 30xx cards.
Until then it was assumed that 90Hz was impossible with DP1.4 and every perepherie. DP2.0 compatible hardware also did not exist yet. Overdrive the values only became possible later and it’s really just a stroke of luck. Therefore it does also not work with every Nvidia driver.
btw the original 8kx was never advertised as native at 90Hz. Only with 75Hz.
The 90 hz function also works on my 1650 super. Works fine for watching videos.
Here’s my speculation/educated guess about what’s happened:
The 8KX originally only supported up to 75Hz native due to limitations of DisplayPort 1.4. Pimax worked with nVidia to boost this to 90Hz using newer capabilities on 30 series cards (even though it was technically beyond the original spec).
Pimax advertised and released this new capability. And then subsequently discovered that it wasn’t working for a substantial portion of its customers when complaints and support tickets started rolling in. Pimax presumably knows technical details about the underlying problems that have cropped up across their customer base, but it’s generally assumed that it has to do with overdriving the displayport beyond its rated maximums. Though that is not necessarily the case, or may not be the only cause that comes up. But this seems to have led to multiple variations of the firmware (which all have the same version number) which work around at least some of the problems which can be given to individual users by Pimax support to fix their problems on a case by case basis.
This has surely created a lot of pain for Pimax on multiple fronts. And there probably isn’t a way to just fix it outright for everyone that they can put into a firmware update, or they would have already done that. I’m pretty sure there’s a substantial portion of users for whom the combination of hardware they have prevents 90Hz from ever working even though they have a supported nVidia chipset, and it may come down to specific board partners, models, and revision numbers of GPUs.
To add to this, the 8KX has been around for 3 years at this point. Something which I don’t think anybody has mentioned yet is the issue of EOL parts. Small companies don’t have the ability to require their suppliers to keep parts in production for longer. So it becomes necessary to change parts over longer production runs.
So I suspect that both of these factors have played into Pimax producing this new revision of the 8KX. The new model has updated parts that are able to do 90Hz native reliably now which resolves that fiasco for them going forward. But they may have been forced to switch to the new revision before the firmware was fully ready because they can’t actually get parts to make the old revision 8KX anymore.
If my guesses about this are true, I can see where there would have been a discussion about whether to call it a new product (8KX Pro, 2.0, etc). But how can you? It doesn’t actually have new features to advertise which the old revision didn’t (at least supposedly) have. And it would be drawing attention to the problems with 90Hz that the old revision had. So instead Pimax just started shipping the new revision without any announcement.
This isn’t actually unusual. All hardware companies put out newer revisions of their hardware for a variety of reasons, often because they have to change internal parts over time as availability changes. Most of the time these are silent releases, and customers never have any idea. The product looks and acts the same. The Valve Index you buy today is almost certainly not actually the same Valve Index that was for sale at launch. Just as almost certainly this is not the first time Pimax has silently switched to a new revision of the 8KX. That is entirely normal and customary for businesses to do.
The unusual part is that Pimax wasn’t fully ready with its firmware and software yet. The new revision behaves differently and requires incompatible firmware, and that has made the “silent” switchover very visible this time. Customers are shocked and worried about what it all means.
I’d like to point out that existing customers who already have the older revision 8KX are not affected by the existence of this new revision. Pimax has not taken away your slower refresh rates or legacy upscaling mode. This change affects new customers that are buying a new 8KX now. And Pimax has changed the advertising on their website to reflect the current state of the 8KX that they’re buying now. It lists 90Hz only, nVidia only, etc.
Personally, I’m a new customer myself. I only just bought my Pimax in December, and I kind of wish I’d gotten on just a little later so I received this new revision. As a new customer, I really don’t care about all of those old legacy modes anyway. It was the announcements of 90Hz native support, DMAS, and the upgrade program to the 12K that got me to try an 8KX.
Anyway, if I’m right about how things have gone down, Pimax’s actions here do make sense. It’s not ideal, but I suspect they didn’t have much choice.
Except that Amd GPU hardware seems to have almost to zero issues. It was Nvidia side that some users are having issues with 90hz.
Presumably AMD support is coming for the new 8KX revision as soon as possible. Pimax can’t sell 8KX’s to new customers with AMD GPU’s in the meantime, which is reflected on the product page for the 8KX.
A particularly bad case at the moment is if any customer with an AMD GPU buys a new 8KX based on an outdated expectation of support for AMD GPU’s without paying attention to what the current product page actually says.
Another case that occurs to me is what happens if someone RMA’s an 8KX right now when they have an AMD GPU? Hopefully Pimax has thought of this and has retained a supply of old revision 8KX’s for the purpose. Otherwise they wouldn’t be able to handle warranty commitments for existing customers in some cases.
It seems unlikely that Pimax prefers this situation, and that’s a lot of why I think they were probably forced into it because they can’t make older revision 8KX’s anymore.
It is more recently Pimax fixed the webpage. They have been shipping these new revised 8kXs since Nov\Dec. It was only after cny theu revised the website.
I don’t think that is accurate. I have received two 8KX’s, the first on Nov 26th (which was defective), and the second on Dec 20th. Neither of them were this new revision.
The earliest mention on these forums of a user seeing only 90Hz as an option or mentioning firmware V2.1.255.2001 was by ScarWardjinn on Jan 20th. Ah. There’s an earlier mention on Reddit by ScarredDjinnOfWar (presumably the same person) on Jan 7th which says he’d just received his 8KX that day.
I myself mentioned that the website only listed 90Hz, nVidia support only, and no mention of upscaling mode anymore on Jan 24th. It is unknown how long before this the website was actually changed. But it was not before I purchased my 8KX.
Chinese New Year was Feb 1st. So all of this definitely occurred before CNY.
Why do you think the new revision has been shipping since Nov/Dec? Do you have a reference earlier than January? The references I can find suggest that both shipments and the website update occurred in January, and there’s nothing to indicate that the website wasn’t updated before Pimax started shipping the new revision.
I think it’s likely that the website changes just weren’t noticed for a number of weeks by anyone posting on the forums until well after the first reports of users confused by only having 90Hz as an option appeared.
Anyone have an opinion as to exactly WHY they ditched 75 and 60hz? And the upscaling. 75hz works wonderfully for me. Upscaling and 60hz did not please me, but they worked. Like from a logistical standpoint or a technical standpoint? There’s been so much talk about when they changed it…WHY? 90hz is not necessarily better. Attaining and maintaining 37.5 fps or 75fps is much easier, allowing for greater clarity to boot. No arguing that 45hz/90hz would be smoother IF attained, but thats like saying 4k is always better and we know that it depends on the circumstances… I feel like new Pimax owners were sadly short-changed or at the very least bait-switched.
90Hz gives the quieter picture and is healthier on the eye. Some people perceive 60 and 75Hz as flickering.
and in view of the fact that some users grumble why the 8kx can’t do 144, 200, 1000Hz, it was probably the obvious compromise 
pro tip, if you turn off the repro, you can enjoy 1-90 FPS continuously 
I’ve never encountered tearing in an HMD.
We don’t actually know that Pimax has ditched these modes in anything more than the short term. If my speculation as to what’s happened is correct, then 90Hz native nVidia support is merely the first mode supported by the firmware for the new 8KX revision, and Pimax released it as a stop gap as soon as they could. This is the most important single mode for it to have which will be what the majority of users favor/need.
It is my own speculation and opinion that Pimax may and should drop at least some of these legacy modes, especially the upscaling mode. From my perspective as a new Pimax customer, these modes appear to exist primarily to comfort long time Pimax users who have owned older headsets and are used to using these older modes. This seems especially true for the upscaling mode which I have done a lot of performance testing on and concluded that it’s completely obsoleted by the newer 90Hz native mode, even for fast action games.
If the 8KX was a brand new product today with no prior lineage of previous headsets, it wouldn’t have these historical legacy modes and nobody would miss them. I haven’t heard anybody complaining, for instance, about the lack of these modes on the Aero.
Now that might be overstating the case a little. There is still some utility in these older modes versus 90Hz native for certain specific use cases, but it’s pretty thin. If I was Pimax, I would probably still keep 75Hz and 60Hz (particularly since they’re likely to be low hanging fruit to continue to support anyway). But I would drop the upscaling mode as obsolete.
That’s a controversial opinion. I know Heliosurge especially doesn’t agree with it, and his opinion is valid, too. Our varying opinions on this matter may be representative of the perspectives of new versus long time Pimax users in general.
It just means they didn’t clear the old stock before shipping new models. It mat have been Dec. They did the same when they revised the Artisan and 8k+ to the Usb3 with Usb power platform vs the 12v wall plug model with Usb2.
The first fw 2001 appeared in December. We were asking about it as no official release of that firmware.
Yeah the up-scaling was nice only for people having trouble deciding against other HMDs offering 90 hz when there’s was listed at 75Hz, such that a user could say - “oh I can still do 110 Hz if I want, and 75Hz is not as good as 90 hz”. It forced an asterix in all the specs.
Everytime I went to use the upscaling (even in a game where the render resolution was much higher) it was almost garish in my opinion. I am indeed glad they got rid of the upscaling as I’m sure that took extra resources and made things messy with firmware etc. Undoubtedly Pimax made a calculated decision and probably a very good one from a technical standpoint, but I certainly think the messaging could have been more direct and is very much not exactly bait-and-switch. Versioning must be clear. If Apple did that, there’d be lawsuits!
I have two friends that want me to simply set them up with the system like I have - and now I have to tell them they can’t have exactly the same, and that I will get only get them close (better or worse).
(Yes, I’ve prepared them both for the costs and delays)
I guess I could ask them if they can tell the difference from 75Hz vs. 90Hz as you say some people can see flickering even at 75Hz (I perceive zero flicker). So I guess it’s a good thing I can’t. Too many years of 30Hz CRTs probably killed my old eyes!
The nice thing about the 12K is that it could do 200 Hz and then frame-timing - even when not perfect - will have fewer drops/tears and will be more on-time when they do occur, as more rates will be integers of 200Hz than 75Hz. (Assuming Pimax still allows compulsive smoothing - oof what an aweful translation)
I mean, if you get a game doing 200 fps it’s probably minecraft, am I right?
The headset had an early limit of 75hz due to hardware limitations the RTX cards and Amd gpu newer features and software maturity allowed 90hz native.
The Upscaling didn’t take up much resources as the P4k, og 8k, 8k+ already supported it. The 8kX when it was not going to be a consumer release but an experimental release was not going to feature upscaling.
Upscaling mode is for fast pace games that benefit from extra Refresh. It reduces SDE/pixel oeeking that you get on 5k models. The image will be softer due to it being upscaled as input res is lower than panel res.
If DP 2.0 had been available for hmd and gpus it would have likely had 90hz native on release. Lower refreshes are for users and aps that can gain from higher res but at lower refesh for bandwidth and Movie watching.
The 5k+ for example only had 90hz. The team figured out how to enable 120hz and latet 144hz. However the first version of 5k+ could only go as high as 110hz due to I believe panel limitations.
Other hmds due to in part lack of FoV helps a lot.
Of course, that again leads-back whether the actual input will truly be 200Hz, not “upscaled” or motion smoothed in the HMD by way of the SoC…It’s right back to Samsung’s motion-flow confusion all over again
My big concern here is that newer versions of Pitool might also come with a firmware upgrade that is no longer compatible with my 1080ti. The big downside to this new revision IMO is the loss of compatibility with anything other than RTX cards. That is a huge problem in today’s GPU market. Upgrading to a 30 series GPU is an exercise in frustration at this time because they simply can’t be found at msrp without extreme luck. If Pimax is careful to not let that pitool/firmware situation happen then existing customers would not be affected by this revision as you say, but I can easily see something like that happening. I just hope Pimax keeps this point in mind. I would hate to be cut out of future software advancements (like improved compatibility with Luke Ross’s VR mods) due to this change.
If I knew this was the case then I wouldn’t have bought an 8KX. I bought mine a month ago, and it just arrived two days ago, and suddenly they are not laptop compatible. Before I bought the thing I read so many threads where people were using them on their laptops, only for that to change in the time it took to purchase mine. I sincerely hope firmware comes out to fix it, but I fully expect them to just say “sorry about your luck, buy a Desktop”
I am super pissed off right now
We’ve recommended against laptops since the 8kX originally came out and hdcp has been out of the firmware since August 2021 and it is very unlikely we will have a version that adds it back.
That said -
While not recommended it is indeed possible in some cases though.
Here are the steps:
Sometimes at shows and customer demos we do use laptops even recently so it is something that can happen but we do not recommend it.
My comments don’t apply to the situation with laptops. I don’t know much about that and have no informed opinion on it.
However, since I do use a desktop machine for my VR, and I am interested in this updated revision of the 8KX which I seem to have just barely missed because I ordered right before the switch, I may be interested in swapping 8KX’s with you. That could resolve your concerns.
Contact me via PM’s if you are interested.