lense blur has been my number one enemy at immersion into VR so far, the tiny sweet spots on most headsets are quite frankly infuriating at the worst of times, and immersion breaking at the best of times. I feel like half the time I spend in VR is readjusting the headset so it’s not blurry in both eyes (not just on Pimax, but it happens on Pimax more often because Pimax headsets are heavier and they move more often when you move your head)
The most noticeable immersion breaker used to be SDE but ever since odyssey+/Q2 it’s no longer a big deal.
I hope that they can keep their newer headsets under 1kg, it’s hard to really get immersed into anything for longer than 15 minutes at a time when you can’t distract yourself from the weight on your head.
Distortion and having a cable is less annoying than constant lense blur due to a small sweet spot on the lenses and theheadset being heavy causing the need for constant readjustment when moving due to inertia unless firmly attached to your head, but I’m really glad that distortion and cable are apparently gone.
If the only problem is weight and ensuring the device stays glued firmly to one spot I can live with that as annoying as it is, to be fair. They should definitely have eye relief by now though. (which also might even help improve the small sweet spot)
I must put in a little note, though, that even the eye relief adjustments in the Vive and Index are insufficient for some of us - possibly more people than one might think, given the apparent market for thinner foam cushions, and number of users who will swear on their mother’s grave that the Vive and Rift CV1 are the same FOV.
I had to make some rather invasive modding to my Vive, to make it fit decently, and get close enough to the lenses (including filing a bevel at the top of the lenses, to stop them from drawing blood off my brow - I’ve had to do the same with the Index). I Also need to do unsupported things to tilt the devices down, and widen the Index cowling to stop it from squeezing hard on my face from the sides, like an old aunt commenting on how much you’ve grown.
Agreed. The new optical setup may contribute to a thinner device, with a little little bit less leverage for its intertia… We’ll see… :7
Our optical engineers and Tobii have been working on this new lens system for nearly 2 years. We met with them and committed to providing teardown samples at CES in 2019 and teams started shortly after that. Goal was wider and distortion free across the entire lens. Team built a massive number of samples since then (we put a photo of some of them in the presentation). The entire aspheric section is essentially a sweet spot when viewing through it. The improvements are stunning but it did take a long time as all sorts of mechanical, optical and software changes were needed.
I should make a secondary note that the mechanical auto-ipd adjustment could also be a reason that eye relief isn’t included, simplifying an already complex looking mechanism as much as possible is always a good bet imo I’d hate for the 12k to release and be plagued by rma’s
If this was pointed at me/my suggestion let me, once again, explain it:
I am not talking about stacking foam or anything else.
I’m talking about different “spacers” (plastic) which are mounted in between the “fixed” cowling and the facepad/foam.
There could be three sizes included in the box and the thinnest one could already be mounted.
It could also just be three different sized cowling pieces (not sure if it’s as easy to replace as on the P2 series) included.
And once again, I’m not saying it’s perfect but if there’s a technical reason (not enough space?) for not having a “proper” eye-relief system, it’s better than not being able to change the distance between the eyes and the lenses at all and I do not see it as a “ridiculous and janky solution”, no matter the price…
I see it as a very simple and sufficient solution (if properly executed).
When I’m using the ET module on the 8KX my eye-lids smudge the lenses and that’s really annoying and I’m even using a thicker pad…
I can’t say I see why one would get in the way of-, or complicate the other - they are two separate mechanisms, and live on opposite sides of the lenses.
If anything, I imagine the auto-ipd system would have a much easier job, if before it sets to work, the HMD have already been fitted with the lens assembly roughly in a known volume and orientation relative to the user’s eyes, regardless of whether the user is the perfect reference the “gasket” was designed for, or a misshapen mutant like myself. :7
Every moving part is another complication, though, and another thing that can break, or wobble, as well as requiring space, and adding weight, which is why something like what DrWilken suggests is such a reasonable proposal; It is lightweight, slim, and sturdy, and in these days of magnetic attachments, you could keep a bunch preconfigured for each family member. :7
don’t see any mechanics that moves the screens along with the lenses either, even though IIRC @PimaxUSA confirmed that on @mixedrealityTV stream, maybe there was a misunderstanding
Not sure exactly what I am seeing in the renders with the worm gears (embedded video timestamp)… The whole moving shuttle tube, with the lenses in front, seem to stick all the way though, down to where the display panels would be, rather than being cut off where in the current series there is a pane of clear plastic, which the shuttles ride on top of, and also seem to encase the panels with a flat section near the corners, but there still looks like there is something there, at the height of that pane… Could just be a though-plate frame that holds things in place and provides rails, but it kind of looks like something is clipping, and/or doing something of an X-ray effect (EDIT: …which could be a video compression artefact)…
(Use “,” and “.” on the keyboard, to single-frame step though Youtube videos.)
From this exploded view, It also looks like there are two elements to the lenses, like in the Valve Index (previously suggested by the interference patterning evident in every picture), which would reasonably be what can give us the strong refractions to “spread the image from a smaller screen over the large lenses”, so to speak, when seen from our point of view.
Somewhat worryingly, it would appear the hind of these elements is still fresnel all the way to the center, behind the non-fresnel part of the front one, although this may possibly be a non-issue, if one assume things are collimated between the elements…
EDIT2: BTW… If the HMD really does 200° total FOV, and 118° binocular overlap, that’s 159° per eye, that games need to render – we’ll definitely want foveated rendering for those “big tan:s” toward the edges… :7
Maybe, but Pimax also announced multiple face foams for the 8k series of headsets that just never materialized in any way. So it would be nice if they decide to go this route but be wary about basing any purchases off of add ons that do not yet exist and may never exist.
Yeah what is the true minimum IPD of the 8K X where the center circles of the lenses are? I think it’s 65mm when the IPD adjuster is set to it’s minimum of 60mm. I have a 66mm IPD and it still doesn’t look right when set at minimum IPD even with wearing VR Frames as I’m short sighted.
Hopefully they can do this with the smaller displays
and 30% reduced size.
@hammerhead_gal@PimaxQuorra
The suggestion above is a good suggestion (and the only real criticism I can think of at this point about the reality headset. Many people had eye strain/blur problems but also some were not in the ideal IPD range which prevented them from using the P2 Pimax headsets even with virtual software IPD adjustments.
There are three ways to fix this that I can think of
Above suggestion (way #1) - redesign lenses to move the lense centres closer to the nose slightly or expand sweet spot with new lenses
#2 - Cut the interior peripheral parts of the lense off near the nose so the lenses sit closer together when at minimum range
#3 - Cut the plastic worm mechanism in the headset so that the existing lenses/new lenses can sit closer together. (See extreme IPD mod links above)
if Pimax can get the minimum distancr between the centre of the lenses to 55mm, even 60mm, using the extreme IPD mod there wouldn’t be much to criticise their new headset on.
If several of us enthusiasts can open up your headsets and modify the plastic slightly to increase the minimum ipd range down to 55mm without using software surely Pimax can do it as well
My IPD is 58.5 and I can get it quite nice on my 8KX. I think other factors are involved with this. Facial structure and head shape among other things. Your natural eye relief as well. I have setup very large numbers of people and the odds of someone with a high IPD not achieving perfection are roughly the same as low IPD.
@PimaxUSA A bit of extra Lee way on the minimum possible hardware IPD adjustable range would help to minimise bad experiences with people on the verge of the range, and a plastic modification simple fix can do that with the extreme IPD mod by reducing the IPD plastic worm mechanism behind the headset housing.
There’s a few other ways of increasing the minimum range but the plastic worm modification is the easiest, the other ways are filing the inner part of the lenses down or changing the position of the lense centres to be closer together before printing the lenses/making a new lenses with wider sweet spot.
I’m sure eye relief will help with that as well which I’m glad to see there. (Y)
Are you guys going to do a lightweight MAS (seeing as the 8KX weighs 850g with the MAS) if the 8KX is reduced by 30% in weight the MAS could be reduced in weight as well down to 500 grams together hopefully?
I did a simple test one day. I measured and cut a length of paper at 66mm length, my IPD. Then set the 8K X to minimum IPD of 60mm which is what is displayed on screen when adjusting. Lined up the paper and each end lined up to the circles of the lenses.
I understand that the circles of the lenses are supposed to line up with your pupils?
