What makes it complex to you? Just count subpixels instead of pixels.
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The use of non-RGB-stripe subpixels at all is a hugely unpredictable negative. More or fewer, it all just means an additional minus 20% error.
yawn
Can you elaborate on that please? Preferably with some sources
I have elaborated on it. More than once at this point. Every time a non-RGB-stripe display is used by anyone, compared to an RGB stripe display, they report readability equal to, or as bad as 20% worse. This is widely reflected in the original 8k reviews.
At this point, my time would be better spent making measuring devices that would make this entire discussion utterly pointless. But how much experience do you have to be debating this with me anyway? Especially with the modern panels of something like an 8kX?
Youâre just making stuff up now. Iâm really not sure why itâs so difficult for you to comprehend the difference between pentile and RGB panel resolution, itâs been perfectly explained to you, by me, risa and by linking you to that other thread with much more in detail info. Yet somehow you donât seem to WANT to understand it.
I own or have owned pretty much all headsets that are out there. StarVR being the latest that I bought. Not sure why that even matters? Math = math. No need for personal opinions to clutter that.
I agreed with risaâs conclusions for the most part. Where I do not agree with you is on the premise that counting subpixels is a substantially superior metric.
Fair enough then. Letâs agree to disagree.
Because itâs NOT MATH. Thatâs the whole point. These âmetricsâ are all so awfully rough that they are already nearly meaningless at narrow ranges. In statistics, this concept is called confidence intervals, and the poorer your confidence intervals get, the more evidence from other sources is needed to base any reasonable conclusions.
In this case, as you pointed out, the determination to make is which of a few headsets are higher or lower readability than the StarVR one. Itâs close enough to call that both of us are probably using our best data to make a decision with an alpha on the hard metrics of less than 80%.
Adding the complexity of counting RGB subpixels, or how they are shared or otherwise used by the pixel data sent to the panel, only makes the confidence intervals even worse.
This is basically mediocre science at best. Now I am going to spend my time developing a measuring device to make it better science.
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Yet you fail to explain why you donât think itâs any better. You keep on posting random things about âerror marginsâ without any explanations and mostly, thatâs itâs not your âexperienceâ and that thatâs very important since you own a lot of headsets. Itâs all nonsense.
Like you showed before in your posts, you seem to be under the impression that âa pixel = a pixelâ, being the smallest entity in a picture to convey graphical info, a âdotâ. But thatâs not true for pentile. Pentile panels donât even render at the pixel level. They render at the subpixel level. Why? Because a âpixelâ on a pentile panel doesnât have the possibility to 1:1 represent a âdotâ. So for Pentile panels, the whole âpixelâ concept is kind of moot.
Nonsense.
Sigh⌠It IS math. You obviously donât understand it, but it IS math: 1080p PenTile is not true 1080p. I just did the math | by Suyash Srijan | Medium
Haha good luck with that.
BTW, can anybody clean up this thread regarding all the pimax related posts? @NextGenVR maybe? Thanks
BTW @mirage335 as you keep on saying that itâs much more important to âexperienceâ a headset than comparing hard numbers: Hereâs Sebastian, who unlike you, actually tried the headset, confirming that itâs getting close to a Vive Pro: HALF-LIFE ALYX ON THE STARVR ONE - Through The Lens - How Good Is Alyx On The Human Vision FOV HMD? - YouTube (just like I expected)
Makes me wonder, why is Pentile being used as a comparison here? Does any new VR headset use Pentile panels nowadays?
People like @mirage335 and @pimaxusa have claimed over and over again that the resolution should be close to (or even worse than!) CV1/Vive OG. While Sebastian now indeed just confirms itâs actually close to a Vive Pro in terms of resolution. Just like I said all along.
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I think they both refer to the equal PPD of OG Vive/CV1 based on the amount of horizontal panel pixels, not subpixels or its matrix. Yes RGB has more subpixels and pixel density than Pentile. But Vive Pro uses Pentile. And to my eyes, Rift S (RGB) pixel density looks way better than Vive Pro panels, despite the fact Vive Pro actually has a higher panel resolution.
So if StarVR equals the pixel density of Vive Pro, I would guess its visually equivalent to a CV1-kinda resolution headset with RGB matrix panels.
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Sure, Rift S looks better than Vive Pro, but I always liked the Vive Pro too. The thing that bothered me most was the SDE. But if the StarVR has Vive Pro like resolution and better SDE, then that sounds like something I can live with.
Exactly, they base it on oversimplified PPD calculations that are not very accurate, like Risa showed above, and totally ignore the fact that the panel has an extra subpixel. Hence the resulting resolution is much closer to the Vive Pro than what they estimated (equally/worse than CV1).
It really feels like you Pimax guys want to make the StarVR look as bad as possible. Iâm really not sure why, you Pimax guys really donât need to be afraid, StarVR is NOT competing with the same customer (well, only a handful exceptions maybe). And obviously in terms of resolution the 8k-X is WAY WAY better anyway.
Nah I really dont see StarVR as a competitor in any way. Not only for its price, but also the low availability and current struggle with game support.
As an enthusiasts though, and a potential buyer of StarVR, Im quite disappointed to see the low-spec panels they have chosen. To me, its like selling a huge 100 inch OLED TV in 2020 with old-gen 1080p resolution. Nobody really buys a 1080p TV anymore, unless its 30 inches or smaller. Especially since 8K TVs are here already.
At launch day, I opted to buy a StarVR unit for the full prize and got a no-no by email a week later (maybe because Im not a developer).
But now, the more I read and the more I hear from those who got it, Im starting to wonder if I better save my money for something better.
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Well there we all agree, I wish they had upgraded the resolution too. Hopefully we donât have to wait 2 years for the next gen.
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This is the reason why we need a correctly calculated PPD to make an apple to apple comparison. I am not familiar with RIft S, but looking at Rift CV1 or Quest (which are in my database) it seems that Oculus headsets typically have smaller FOV. So on the same display res, they would have bigger PPD and therefore better perceived resolution. (The nice demonstration is in doc-ok paper I posted earlier where he compares OG Vive and Rift CV1 which both use the same pentile OLED panels, yet Vive has ~ 11.5 PPD and Rift CV1 has 13.8 PPD).
Plus HTC Vive Pro seems to be quite inefficient with visible FOV, which may also decrease a PPD.
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