8KX connection problem?

Pimax Hardware P2: 8kX
42

Ok… might be my 8K-X is faulty… at least after almost three months of intensive use:

I did not have any explicit connection problems since I attached it to the VR-ready-port.

But half an hour ago, I suddenly had no image any more after having played for ten minutes:

Started Euro Truck Simulator 2, choose a contract, as usual, started driving.
Then, perhaps having driven for 3 minutes, the displays went black. Music/sound was still there.
I hit ESC and took off the HMD => image on the monitor, game still running well.
Put back HMD => had the game’s menu image on the displays.
Clicked “drive” => had shortly an image, then it went black again, but then showed an completely faulty coloured artifact image in quick change with black screen: black screen - artifact image - black screen - artifact image…
Hit ESC and F11 => image on the monitor came back/was there; HMD showed the usual “frozen” ingame image it shows always when going to menu and hitting F11; so far okay
Clicked “drive” => again shortly an image, then that quick change as described above

Exited game via task manager, looked at SteamVR status window: Had lost connection to the 8K-X.
And the 8K-X itself was still happily blinking between black and artifacts.

Powered-off the 8K-X by button, waited, re-powered-on
=> SteamVR directly re-connected. Launched ETS2 => games started and displayed image in the HMD. Started driving => no problems for the next 10 minutes until I stopped driving for the moment now.

Is my 8K-X faulty?

Or is my graphics card saying good-bye…? This one is a bit undervolted, 1935 MHz @0.931V, VRAM +500 MHZ, PowerTarget +6% - but Afterburner doesn’t show anything concerning - everything as always, temp’s max 71/72°, mostly below 70. No hits on temp targets or voltage limits, and only a handful of power limits with this configuration, which is much much much worse when running that card on stock.

But as everything else seems to be running fine - also absolutely no events in reliability monitor! -, I suspect the HMD having become defective somehow… :thinking:

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And again:
20 minute of flawless driving, then black - artifacts - black - artifacts…
Game itself still running fine, hit ESC and F11, was able to save and quit regularly.
SteamVR lost connection, too, obviously.

After power-off / power-on, PiTool shows error 10936:
grafik

Needless to say that I already re-connected and that it is plugged :wink:

I think I might be able to get it re-connected somehow somewhen.

But as mentioned, it seems something is broken there.

Is it the cable only…? Or the whole HMD?

EDIT:
Just trying the second DP-port of the graphics card.
Got image back, so at least, Pimax / PiTool knows how to handle any other port than the first one - something that already improved since the last time I tried this two years ago :wink:

Curious, whether the problem is gone now… if so, it is the port, for whatever reason. Since it worked for two years with the 5K+ and for almost three months now with the 8K-X.

If not, it is the cable or the HMD. Which I think and fear is more likely the case…
(However I don’t know what should be better - a defective 2080 Ti would be quite bad, too… :unamused: )

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I had no issues using any DP port with the 5K+ on my 2080 Ti but have to use my primary port with the 8KX. So my monitor is now using the 2nd port… :wink:

I guess we’re just right on the edge signal strength wise and even a little difference in quality can make or break… :upside_down_face:

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45

I generally agree with you.

But why should it work for two months 99% flawless, perhaps twice or three times connection problems (not worth bothering about) - and now within the last two weeks since Windows, BIOS, chipset and PiTool update, I get either USB or DP port connection problems almost daily…? :flushed:

I just played an hour without any problems on the second DP port.

Afterwards, I disconnected it, blowed away any (invisble) dust particles that might have been there and on/in the 1st port, and connected it back on the 1st one for further trials.

It just is hard to accept for me that things that worked before, now don’t work any more - unless any of the abovementioned updates did change major (or minor, but critical) things…

On the other hand, of course there is a lot of possibilies to think about… not at least the increased backlighting which perhaps draws more power and perhaps might have impact on the signal strenght :man_shrugging: I am far from being any kind of expert there. But I admit: I have got used to the backlight so much already that I don’t really want to revert back on older versions without it.
Also, I still have a four week old backup of Windows version 1909 on my old, disconnected SSD - could also generally be worth a try.
But first, this again will turn out in hours of verification trials until I might know something for sure. Unless it fails directly, as well :wink: Second, reverting back Windows isn’t really a solution since I won’t get any security updates then sooner or later.
Well, and reverting a mainboard BIOS always seems to be a bit hazardous… if there isn’t any guarantuee for a working UPdate, then there isn’t any for a working DOWNgrade even more :wink:

Puuuh…

Dammit…

Still hoping this is something that might be fixed with any Windows, NVidia, PiTool or firmware update in the next time :pray:

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46

Something in the signal path must have degraded slightly?

Could be in the GPU, cable or headset?

Increased backlight might indeed also be the culprit.

It should be possible to compare the current draw on a high vs low backlight setting, I guess.

I would also try the backup. There’s so many factors to take into account… So why not? :+1:

It also seems we’re on the limits of what the USB ports can deliver in some cases:
https://community.openmr.ai/t/usb-device-over-current-status-detected-when-i-plug-the-8kx/31650/45

Maybe when the board inside heats up the power draw increases slightly and one of the controllers inside tips over/crashes somehow?

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47

Yes, this one I have noticed, too: Although I never tried playing without the USB2.0-power, I sometimes had it, that the 8K-X already fully displayed image after Windows boot-up, while USB2.0-power was still off.
So, this, indeed is a weird thing since I generally would assume the USB2.0-cable not being attached and connected just for joke…

Yes, possible, too…

But if it was the board itself, Windows would show anything related as it did reliably with former hardware error event #144 and the :warning: in hardware manager when the 8K-X was connected to the “wrong” USB3.0-port. So if ever there were any controllers tipping, I’d assume Windows recognizing this, and then at least the game would freeze or - if it was on the 2080 Ti - the graphic cards driver crashed and restarted. Nothing of this happened so far - fortunately :wink: So I think the system itself is quite stable.

The only thing my event log shows are quite a lot of those here:

grafik
grafik867×822 57.7 KB

grafik
grafik868×296 5.33 KB

But as you can see, they go back till the date of Windows Upgrade, first. And second, although I cannot exactly remember, whether it was specifically this one, I’ve had similar errors with 1909 as well, as well as before, as long as I can remember back :wink:
Furthermore, they only appear here in the event log, not in the reliability monitor - which I’d say is some hint, that it might not be tooooo critical - if yes, they would show up there as well. But reliability monitor in terms of 8K-X and the like is clean since I switched to the VR-ready-port four days ago. Only had one crash of ETS and one of Windows-audio, but I assume them to be related to the old ROG Phoebus soundcard which is not being supported ASUS any more, so I dismounted it yesterday evening.

In total, yes, quite a bunch of possibilities… :hot_face: :woozy_face:

Nevertheless, I try looking forward. Switching back to my old SSD isn’t done quickly either, since it’s now four weeks since then, and I uninstalled some older tools, installed the newest chipset drivers to be compatible with the latest BIOS, and last but not least uninstalled Phoebus drivers yesterday evening, as mentioned, so they are still installed on the SSD although no card there any more.
So, it might turn out to be just a different bunch of problems and possibilities costing hours of my life-time… :wink:

But it’s already helping to discuss this with you all here and to get some valuable information such as the one above about USB current and the like.

Future USB4.0 and DP-standards will show whether it gets better :wink:

Just hoping none of my hardware is taking any serious damage over time until then if we are “surfing on top of the wave” :wink:

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48

I just read the other thread you linked completely:

Might it be worth to open a RMA ticket and ask Pimax for a new cable…?
Of course, up to now, nothing is 100% reproducable. But if I had the cable, at least this check would rather easily be done… :face_with_monocle: :thinking:
Or aren’t the symptoms I have not typical for a faulty cable…?

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Could be… :wink:

I would definitely suggest getting Doman (via a ticket) to do a check of Your system if possible.

It seems he’s a really clever guy… :wink:

You’ll probably either get a new cable or he might find another issue with either Your PC or the actual headset.

You could also check logs in:
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Pimax\runtime

There might be clues?

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Just had two uninterrupted hours of relaxed and really good truck transport and driving - Terkidag-Edirne-Istanbul-WelikoTarnovo-Bukarest-Pitesti - on DP-port #1 - absolutely no problems, no artifacts, no freezes or the like…
Only every couple of minutes that usual stutter for a split second when loading and calculating new stuff and traffic just like when flat-gaming on my monitor as well.

Can’t it just stay like this forever…? :wink: :pray:

I’ll do so next time I encounter any issues, I can’t remember the exact time when this happened earlier, and that log is large: Although I already had a look at it - not sure if I really understand what is logged there … :joy: I already found a couple of errors, too, but too scattered over time, so I don’t know to what they are really related to.
But as you said: Next time, a clue might already be useful. Not to mention I hope it never happens again :wink:

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Silly question could it just be the game? Has any other game exhibited this behavior? Or is ETS literally the only game you own? (no judgement :wink:)

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I don’t think it is the game as I am playing the truck sims - both ETS and ATS - now since 2-3 weeks, in average I’d estimate appr. 1 hour per day, on the week-ends up to 3, sometimes more. According to steam, ETS2 alone only 56 hrs in the last two weeks :crazy_face:
But this odd behaviour with the artifacts occured only once so far. Or better said: Yes, twice, but within a short time of perhaps half an hour and only yesterday.

Means:
Yes, I could and I will try different games, probably PC1 and DR2.0, perhaps a session of DDDA in vorpX, latest when the issue re-occurs :+1:
But as you can see on the abovementioned timeline: In worst case, I might be “forced” :wink: to play other games for dozens of hours until the artifacts show up again - or never. It is not reproducable yet - fortunately on one hand as it seems I am still able to play for hours without interruption :+1: Unfortunately on the other hand, as it makes any investigation about the root cause more difficult :woozy_face:

Might be that right now, I am a little bit too sensitive to those topics.
But: I think we agree that those artifacts don’t belong into that HMD :wink:
Having played in VR for four or five years now without any such issue, and now - three months after starting up with the 8K-X - all over a sudden having it, is a bit concerning…

_
All the other connection issues already occur(ed) before launching any game - whereas the one with the USB-port might finally be solved, hopefully.

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As if I didn’t have enough “problems” at the moment, I just was lucky and bought a Gigabyte 3080 Gaming OC - hopefully really directly available and shipped, if the information on the page were up-to-date :hugs:

And hopefully, it is really a brand-new one and not a returned, maybe even defective one … :wink: :neutral_face:

More VR-FPS, I am coming :partying_face:

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You’re right this behaviour is odd indeed. (Especially if you are a trucker IRL :joy:)

Truck driver cant wait for ETS on quest 2 so he can play on his lunch breaks at truck stops. :crazy_face:

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:joy::rofl: yeah :laughing:
(20 chars)

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After many attempts, which I will detail, I managed to configure my new Pimax 8KX

  1. Being a Pimax user with my old 5K Plus, I preferred to uninstall Pitool, to do a fresh installation.
  2. I could not download version 260 that should be available in Pimax, the following error appears:

    NoSuchKey
    The specified key does not exist.
    5FC8E1A8EAB1943231ED65A3
    pitool.oss-us-east-1.aliyuncs.com
    PiToolSetup_1.0.1.260.exe
  3. I found version 263, which after installing it, immediately offered me the update to 266.
  4. Once this was done, my 8KX was not recognized, I imagine that the reason was because it was not powered (no light in the power button).
    I tried other USBs and even plugged it directly into power with a 5V adapter, with no results.
  5. I uninstalled Pitool again and installed version 263.
    This time I didn’t do the update, and after a few minutes the 8KX was detected, but … only a few seconds …
  6. The errors that Pitool indicated were mostly 10500, but also 10936 and 20300.
  7. The diagnosis indicated the following:
    Diagnose
  8. I tried, as in the beginning, all USB, as well as HDMI ports, without results.
  9. I chose to update to 266, and leave everything connected without doing anything for half an hour.
  10. After that time, without making any changes, Pitool detected my 8KX and offered me the firmware update that did not finish, indicating an error in the firmware installation.
  11. I’d Reboot the computer and …now everything works correctly.
  12. Strange …

I hope this experience can help someone.

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As your posts stop 7 days ago, I’m really hoping that your new video card fixed your problem, because you’re not going to like my input on this.
If you do some searching, you should find a whole bunch of usb related problem posts involving MSI motherboards and VR from way back in 2016 when the Vive came out. I suspect that this is one of the reasons why they were touting “VR optimized USB ports” back then. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, no one ever figured out exactly what the problem was or how to fix it! I suspect that the issue never, entirely, went away.
What reminded me of this, is all the spread sheets of power draw and distribution. People were going nuts trying to figure out wtf was going on! Power regulators and bandwidth were the suspected culprits but it was never solved. That I know of.
Before you settle on the hmd or a cable, I recommend getting it to another computer. One NOT made by MSI.
Good Luck!

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Hi @Strydr,

no, my new card wasn’t really on stock, it was an error in the shop system, as I already expected / feared :wink: So I cancelled the order Friday last week.

But as my multiple crashes and AppModel-Runtime errors didn’t go away, I decided to flee forward by upgrading to Windows 20H2 and installing newest NVidia drivers as “new install” Wednesday last week.
Since then, all AppModel-Runtime errors have gone and my system got stable again :blush:
So, apparently, something was messed up with the 2004-upgrade or the fact I did not reinstall the graphics drivers already then… who knows… :man_shrugging:

Furthermore, I didn’t notice any major connection issues any more since then, though I had to re-connect the 8K-X on two occasions when it did not turn on properly after launching PiTool. But okay - meanwhile I got used to it a bit, and as long as it re-connects flawless in the 2nd attempt and doesn’t loose connection while active / playing, it is not longer a major issue for me.

But it is good to know, for sure, that apparently MSI mainboards are having problems with VR. Explains a lot :wink:

Remains the question which board manufacturer to choose when upgrading to a 5600X next year:
ASUS isn’t as good as they used to be since a couple of years, especially considering their driver and BIOS support…
ASRock belongs to ASUS, so probably not much better, either.
MSI seems to have issues with VR, as you mentioned. Though it generally works…
BioStar… I don’t know whether I’d give them a try for a high-end performance gaming computer…

So there is not much more left except Gigabyte. Which used to be a good manufacturer when I last had a mainboard from them, and my current 2080 Ti is from Gigabyte, as well, and works fine since 1,5 years even though I got it as Outlet :grin:

I’ll see.

Thanks for your information :ok_hand:

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Interesting. I wonder if my inability to update my Pimax Firmware on my MSI Z97 Gamimg 3 mobo is also another MSI Quirk.

Every other non-msi computer I own can flash just fine. I even completely reinstalled windiws tobsee if I coukd flash and each time it results in me having to unplug move to my other pc and force recovery mode on the headset that is stuck with flashing lights.

Edit: Yesterday after 6 uears I am finally upgrading from my 4790 intel to a Ryzen 5800x which miraculously had 3 in stock at my local Canada Computers. And i’ve gone non MSI this time.

Edit 2: Although apparently the X570 mobos have usb issues with Reverb G2’s so i’m hoping it wont affect the Pimax. :persevere:

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Glad to hear! Unfortunately, doing an ‘upgrade’, as opposed to a clean install, has usually caused problems for me. I’ve done it a few times out of necessity and had it work ok, but there’s usually some issue requiring you to seriously think about wiping it anyway.

I’ve been using Asus, Gigabyte and ASRock. They’re all ‘iffy’, depending on which series (or chipset). For VR, one of the main things I look for are decent heatsinks on the power regulators, 'cause I know I’m gonna be sucking some USB power!
I had an ASRock board that I had to use a Dremel tool to remove part of the heatsinks so the video card would fit, an ASUS that won’t overclock, and a Gigabyte that developed an odd network issue. Pick one. I’ve had pretty good reliability out of variations of all of them.
I’m currently rocking an ASUS Maximus XII Hero, but I don’t remember what drove that decision.

And, just to keep things fun, AMD is finally getting their act together: I built a Ryzen 5 and it’s running flawlessly. Of course, it’s not a VR setup but it’s looking like the top AMD cpu, paired with one of the new AMD video cards might be an interesting entry as well!

Step right up and pull the handle, let’s see what rolls out… yeesh. Definitely keeps me guessing!

Edit: when looking for a motherboard, along with specs, I’m also looking at regulators, heatsinks and sockets.
-There’s not much to see on the regulators, but you’ll usually find that the manufacturer is advertising some kind of ‘superior’ regulation.
-Make sure that your cards will fit over the heatsinks. Look visually, but usually you’ll find this information in the reviews. It’s worth checking the same board at different sites to see the comments, even if you already know who you will be buying it from.
-If you have any additional PCI-e cards (audio, usb, TV) you need to make sure that the card will actually fit. I’ve had to bypass some otherwise decent boards because my TV card would have been choking off the airflow on the video card or the power supply. A lot of us VR users also have an addon USB card.
Hope that helps!

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Seems to me, problems flashing the Vive was one of the issues, but that was a while ago and my memory sucks. But I seem to remember those same people finding out that they couldn’t flash their motherboard, either! First remedy of a motherboard issue is make sure that the Bios is the latest, and we were all doing that, no matter what board we got.
I haven’t been playing with the x570’s yet, so here’s hoping!!!

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